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	<title>Comments on: Instructed Anglican Eucharist</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524908</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is a voice in the blood of the martyrs. What does that voice say? It cries aloud from Oxford, Smithfield, and Gloucester,- â€œResist to the death the Popish doctrine of the Real Presence, under the forms of the consecrated bread and wine in the Lordâ€™s Supper!â€
â€“ J. C. Ryle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a voice in the blood of the martyrs. What does that voice say? It cries aloud from Oxford, Smithfield, and Gloucester,- â€œResist to the death the Popish doctrine of the Real Presence, under the forms of the consecrated bread and wine in the Lordâ€™s Supper!â€<br />
â€“ J. C. Ryle</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Bovis</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524839</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Bovis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524839</guid>
		<description>Though the sacramental theology presented here is not indicative of all Anglicans. His thinking represents the Anglo-Catholic branch of the church, not Anglicans who are of the Reformed/Evangelical backgrounds. This vid is helpful in the sense for people to learn what Anglicans of AngloÃ‡atholic churchmanship believe regarding the Eucharist. 
Some of the things Michael Petty says I think are very good such as:
1. The Eucharist reminds us that Jesus is the culmination of all the mercies of God.
2. The Eucharist is an aticipation of Christ return (1 Cor. 11:26)

I did not agree with his remarks about what the Eucharist is pointing to; that the Eucharist brings us into the upper room. Yes...I agree with him that Chrst is contemporary and that he is with us. Nor do I believe that when Jesus says &quot;Do this in remembrance of me&quot;that Jesus is saying that we will be reliving the upper room experience. 

In his notes, Michael reminds us what the BCP teaches - that Christ is truly and really present in the Sacrament. But he is present only sacramentally, that is to say, only by a sign. We eat and drink the signs of Jesus atoning death. They remain nothing but signs. Jesus presence is in his risen power, is due to his promise to be among those who meet in his name and the manner of his presence is the Holy Spirit which he gives to all believers, which is through faith alone in Christ alone. (Articles XXVIIII - And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the supper is by faith.)

I explain to our parishioners that the Eucharist is a physical parable. It is a tangible sign that completely closes the door on the notion that we can contribute to our salvation in any way; that we are saved by the  propitiatory sacrifice of Christ alone. And that the Eucharist is a sign of God&#039;s grace only as long as it is understood in the context of the Word of God. In other words, the Word unlocks the meaning of the Eucharist. 

Will stop now. Just thoughts from an Aussie Anglican minister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though the sacramental theology presented here is not indicative of all Anglicans. His thinking represents the Anglo-Catholic branch of the church, not Anglicans who are of the Reformed/Evangelical backgrounds. This vid is helpful in the sense for people to learn what Anglicans of AngloÃ‡atholic churchmanship believe regarding the Eucharist.<br />
Some of the things Michael Petty says I think are very good such as:<br />
1. The Eucharist reminds us that Jesus is the culmination of all the mercies of God.<br />
2. The Eucharist is an aticipation of Christ return (1 Cor. 11:26)</p>
<p>I did not agree with his remarks about what the Eucharist is pointing to; that the Eucharist brings us into the upper room. Yes&#8230;I agree with him that Chrst is contemporary and that he is with us. Nor do I believe that when Jesus says &#8220;Do this in remembrance of me&#8221;that Jesus is saying that we will be reliving the upper room experience. </p>
<p>In his notes, Michael reminds us what the BCP teaches &#8211; that Christ is truly and really present in the Sacrament. But he is present only sacramentally, that is to say, only by a sign. We eat and drink the signs of Jesus atoning death. They remain nothing but signs. Jesus presence is in his risen power, is due to his promise to be among those who meet in his name and the manner of his presence is the Holy Spirit which he gives to all believers, which is through faith alone in Christ alone. (Articles XXVIIII &#8211; And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the supper is by faith.)</p>
<p>I explain to our parishioners that the Eucharist is a physical parable. It is a tangible sign that completely closes the door on the notion that we can contribute to our salvation in any way; that we are saved by the  propitiatory sacrifice of Christ alone. And that the Eucharist is a sign of God&#8217;s grace only as long as it is understood in the context of the Word of God. In other words, the Word unlocks the meaning of the Eucharist. </p>
<p>Will stop now. Just thoughts from an Aussie Anglican minister.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Bovis</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524823</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Bovis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524823</guid>
		<description>This is a very helpful vid  for those brothers and sisters in Christ who are from non-Anglican backgrounds. 

Thanks for posting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very helpful vid  for those brothers and sisters in Christ who are from non-Anglican backgrounds. </p>
<p>Thanks for posting it.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanieD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524769</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanieD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524769</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really know, Rick.  I just know that people argue about these terms...â€œtransubstantiationâ€ and â€œconsubstantiationâ€...and others when it comes to the Eucharist and somehow it seems to divide them.  I think it is easier just to not use those words and say instead that Jesus is truly present in the bread and wine and that by receiving the Eucharist in faith, we can become more like Jesus and more united to God and to one another.  But, I suppose, people will then argue about what &quot;truly present&quot; means.  In the end, I guess I just don&#039;t really feel like I need to explain to someone what I believe is happening during the Mass, during the receiving of the Eucharist.  If the person insisted on getting more understanding of it, I will refer them to the early Church Fathers, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really know, Rick.  I just know that people argue about these terms&#8230;â€œtransubstantiationâ€ and â€œconsubstantiationâ€&#8230;and others when it comes to the Eucharist and somehow it seems to divide them.  I think it is easier just to not use those words and say instead that Jesus is truly present in the bread and wine and that by receiving the Eucharist in faith, we can become more like Jesus and more united to God and to one another.  But, I suppose, people will then argue about what &#8220;truly present&#8221; means.  In the end, I guess I just don&#8217;t really feel like I need to explain to someone what I believe is happening during the Mass, during the receiving of the Eucharist.  If the person insisted on getting more understanding of it, I will refer them to the early Church Fathers, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524761</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve never understood how people see transubstantiation as an explanation that robs the Eucharist of all mystery.  All the doctrine says,after all, is that we cannot believe our senses when it comes to the Eucharist:  we see, we touch and we taste bread and wine . . . but it is truly the body and blood of Christ by the power and action of the Trinity.  How does that kind of teaching eliminate mystery?

What the senses fail to fathom, let us grasp by faith&#039;s consent--Thomas Aquinas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never understood how people see transubstantiation as an explanation that robs the Eucharist of all mystery.  All the doctrine says,after all, is that we cannot believe our senses when it comes to the Eucharist:  we see, we touch and we taste bread and wine . . . but it is truly the body and blood of Christ by the power and action of the Trinity.  How does that kind of teaching eliminate mystery?</p>
<p>What the senses fail to fathom, let us grasp by faith&#8217;s consent&#8211;Thomas Aquinas.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanieD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524729</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanieD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524729</guid>
		<description>I think if we &quot;did away&quot; with the words &quot;transubstantiation&quot; and &quot;consubstantiation&quot; and said that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist then many of the various forms of Christianity would be able to be more united, even though we do things and say things a bit different in our liturgies.  HOW Jesus becomes truly present is the mystery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if we &#8220;did away&#8221; with the words &#8220;transubstantiation&#8221; and &#8220;consubstantiation&#8221; and said that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist then many of the various forms of Christianity would be able to be more united, even though we do things and say things a bit different in our liturgies.  HOW Jesus becomes truly present is the mystery.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524727</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524727</guid>
		<description>I was studying Eastern Orthodoxy pretty seriously before stumbling upon the Anglican Church we now attend. The Orthodox consider it to be a mystery and in our liturgy on Sunday AM there&#039;s a some wording about it being a mystery. If i had my service handout I would tell you exactly what it says.

I prefer to leave it at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was studying Eastern Orthodoxy pretty seriously before stumbling upon the Anglican Church we now attend. The Orthodox consider it to be a mystery and in our liturgy on Sunday AM there&#8217;s a some wording about it being a mystery. If i had my service handout I would tell you exactly what it says.</p>
<p>I prefer to leave it at that.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanieD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524720</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanieD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524720</guid>
		<description>I like, &quot;â€œItâ€™s a mystery,&quot;  Jonathan.  Works for me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like, &#8220;â€œItâ€™s a mystery,&#8221;  Jonathan.  Works for me!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hunnicutt</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524718</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hunnicutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5621#comment-524718</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still pretty new to Anglicanism, but I&#039;ll take a stab at it.

I think it&#039;s actually up to the rector how the elements are treated after.  I think that generally there is the balance of not offending the brethren, so that if a rector doesn&#039;t have as high of a eucharistic theology as some of his anglo-catholic congregants, he still treats it reverently.  

I think the big different between Anglican and Catholic theology is that while both view the Eucharist as a sacrifice, Catholics view it as a propitiatory sacrifice (which can be said for souls in purgatory for instance), while Anglicans view it as a thanksgiving sacrifice, an offering of gratitude which we eat in the real presence of the Lord.

In fact, while I was studying all of this, it occurred to me that the basic Anglican vision of worship is that of a thanksgiving sacrifice.  Worship is what we offer to God, but mysteriously receive back ourselves.  Every part of Anglican worship can be viewed with this lens.

As for transubstantiation vs consubstantiation vs real presence vs symbolic memorial, etc.  Most Anglican priests I know, when this question is asked  throw up their hands and with a twinkle in their eye say: &quot;It&#039;s a mystery.&quot;  That is what I think the 39 articles are getting at, it&#039;s not so much that transubstantiation is outright wrong.  It&#039;s that it is soo specific that it becomes misleading.

Again, I&#039;m new to Anglicanism, so take it all with a grain of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still pretty new to Anglicanism, but I&#8217;ll take a stab at it.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s actually up to the rector how the elements are treated after.  I think that generally there is the balance of not offending the brethren, so that if a rector doesn&#8217;t have as high of a eucharistic theology as some of his anglo-catholic congregants, he still treats it reverently.  </p>
<p>I think the big different between Anglican and Catholic theology is that while both view the Eucharist as a sacrifice, Catholics view it as a propitiatory sacrifice (which can be said for souls in purgatory for instance), while Anglicans view it as a thanksgiving sacrifice, an offering of gratitude which we eat in the real presence of the Lord.</p>
<p>In fact, while I was studying all of this, it occurred to me that the basic Anglican vision of worship is that of a thanksgiving sacrifice.  Worship is what we offer to God, but mysteriously receive back ourselves.  Every part of Anglican worship can be viewed with this lens.</p>
<p>As for transubstantiation vs consubstantiation vs real presence vs symbolic memorial, etc.  Most Anglican priests I know, when this question is asked  throw up their hands and with a twinkle in their eye say: &#8220;It&#8217;s a mystery.&#8221;  That is what I think the 39 articles are getting at, it&#8217;s not so much that transubstantiation is outright wrong.  It&#8217;s that it is soo specific that it becomes misleading.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m new to Anglicanism, so take it all with a grain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanieD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/instructed-anglican-eucharist/comment-page-1#comment-524713</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanieD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Boy, John, it surely sounds like Catholics and Anglicans are viewing the Eucharist in the same way but calling it something else.  I need a little breakdown on how Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox view this in slightly varying ways.  Not that it matters a lot, but it&#039;s interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, John, it surely sounds like Catholics and Anglicans are viewing the Eucharist in the same way but calling it something else.  I need a little breakdown on how Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox view this in slightly varying ways.  Not that it matters a lot, but it&#8217;s interesting.</p>
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