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	<title>Comments on: In the King&#8217;s Garden (Gen 2), part one</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Lukas db</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542701</link>
		<dc:creator>Lukas db</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 02:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542701</guid>
		<description>I know a professor of biology who proposes that humans were born via a virgin birth.  God, he suggests, may have miraculously brought forth full, ensouled human beings from direct nonhuman ancestors by means of a virgin conception, in a sort of pre-figure of the incarnation.

I don&#039;t mention this to attract converts to the idea.  I&#039;m not one myself.  I just find such attempts to reconcile biology and theology interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know a professor of biology who proposes that humans were born via a virgin birth.  God, he suggests, may have miraculously brought forth full, ensouled human beings from direct nonhuman ancestors by means of a virgin conception, in a sort of pre-figure of the incarnation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mention this to attract converts to the idea.  I&#8217;m not one myself.  I just find such attempts to reconcile biology and theology interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542114</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542114</guid>
		<description>Let me start by saying that it always surprises me how many people when promoting YEC attack modern biology but don&#039;t understand that they&#039;re also attacking modern physics.  The proposed solutions to the starlight problem I have seen have been at best incoherent.

A woman I was seeing once proposed the idea to me that the soul was the thing that gave us, as humans, self awareness.  That Adam and Eve were the first self aware humans.  (I&#039;ll add to this that I see that as a neat explanation for the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.)  That before Adam and Eve we had been beasts, lacking consciousness and conscience.  So the fall did not matter to the others around them, as they did not have the same sort of soul (if any) to worry about.  It mattered only to those who had this knowledge brought to them- if not by descent, then by teaching.  

A Roman Catholic friend of mine tried to explain the original sin to me this way: all of us, during birth or soon after discover pain and because of it, wish to deny our existence.  We wish to stop existing, to fade to oblivion.  This is a rejection of God&#039;s gift of life, and our first sin.  (His phrasing was much more eloquent.)  The original sin thus became our original sin and not Adam&#039;s.

Putting these two together gives a rather interesting view of the entire story of Genesis.  And it certainly works better than the mock theory that Adam and Eve were created by God, but that the wives of Cain and Seth evolved from a common ancestor.  

I&#039;m not claiming to believe this, but this is how I have had friends who were incredibly proficient in science reconcile their faith and their observations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me start by saying that it always surprises me how many people when promoting YEC attack modern biology but don&#8217;t understand that they&#8217;re also attacking modern physics.  The proposed solutions to the starlight problem I have seen have been at best incoherent.</p>
<p>A woman I was seeing once proposed the idea to me that the soul was the thing that gave us, as humans, self awareness.  That Adam and Eve were the first self aware humans.  (I&#8217;ll add to this that I see that as a neat explanation for the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.)  That before Adam and Eve we had been beasts, lacking consciousness and conscience.  So the fall did not matter to the others around them, as they did not have the same sort of soul (if any) to worry about.  It mattered only to those who had this knowledge brought to them- if not by descent, then by teaching.  </p>
<p>A Roman Catholic friend of mine tried to explain the original sin to me this way: all of us, during birth or soon after discover pain and because of it, wish to deny our existence.  We wish to stop existing, to fade to oblivion.  This is a rejection of God&#8217;s gift of life, and our first sin.  (His phrasing was much more eloquent.)  The original sin thus became our original sin and not Adam&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Putting these two together gives a rather interesting view of the entire story of Genesis.  And it certainly works better than the mock theory that Adam and Eve were created by God, but that the wives of Cain and Seth evolved from a common ancestor.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not claiming to believe this, but this is how I have had friends who were incredibly proficient in science reconcile their faith and their observations.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542058</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542058</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;â€œAfter Cain kills Abel and is sentenced to wander, he is afraid that others will hunt him down. He travels away from the land, moves east of Eden and settles in a community in Nod. There he takes a wife, has a family, and later builds a city of his own.â€
Anyone who has taught a childrenâ€™s sunday school class about this knows the children will raise their hands &amp; say â€” Where did all these people come from???&lt;/i&gt;

They evolved, of course.  That was the explanation of one joke book whose title I can&#039;t remember.  While Adam &amp; Eve were going through all that Garden of Eden thing, these others were evolving on the outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>â€œAfter Cain kills Abel and is sentenced to wander, he is afraid that others will hunt him down. He travels away from the land, moves east of Eden and settles in a community in Nod. There he takes a wife, has a family, and later builds a city of his own.â€<br />
Anyone who has taught a childrenâ€™s sunday school class about this knows the children will raise their hands &amp; say â€” Where did all these people come from???</i></p>
<p>They evolved, of course.  That was the explanation of one joke book whose title I can&#8217;t remember.  While Adam &amp; Eve were going through all that Garden of Eden thing, these others were evolving on the outside.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542057</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542057</guid>
		<description>Google the phrases &quot;Genetic Adam&quot; and &quot;Genetic Eve&quot; sometime.  These are traces of human DNA (Genetic Adam) and mitochondrial DNA (Genetic Eve) which indicate that everyone bears the genes from a single male &amp; female from about 65,000 years ago (when the Toba supervolcanic eruption triggered a near-extinction event).

The researchers are careful to point out that this does NOT necessarily mean descent from a single couple (apparently to head off the spin YECs would doubtlessly put on it); rather that these two individuals&#039; DNA spread throughout the population until all had some traces of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google the phrases &#8220;Genetic Adam&#8221; and &#8220;Genetic Eve&#8221; sometime.  These are traces of human DNA (Genetic Adam) and mitochondrial DNA (Genetic Eve) which indicate that everyone bears the genes from a single male &amp; female from about 65,000 years ago (when the Toba supervolcanic eruption triggered a near-extinction event).</p>
<p>The researchers are careful to point out that this does NOT necessarily mean descent from a single couple (apparently to head off the spin YECs would doubtlessly put on it); rather that these two individuals&#8217; DNA spread throughout the population until all had some traces of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Park</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542042</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542042</guid>
		<description>If a &quot;nuance&quot; can be critical, this one is. Does Paul&#039;s reference to Adam really lend credence to the creation story , or is Paul simply using a common basis of understanding to make his point? Does Jesus&#039; reference to the three days Jonah spent in the fish mean that Jesus literally ascribed and testified to that, or does it mean He resorted to a widely understood story (whether fable or fact) as a shortcut to clarity? Did Jesus perhaps make the comment with a wink and a smile? How would we ever know?

Such subtleties become opague to us through translational error and cultural bias. Our Greek mindset causes us to take everything literally and to look for detail when there is none intended and to impart authority to even casual references ...which, of course, can ruffle a lot of feathers and/or lead us into some fascinating discussions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a &#8220;nuance&#8221; can be critical, this one is. Does Paul&#8217;s reference to Adam really lend credence to the creation story , or is Paul simply using a common basis of understanding to make his point? Does Jesus&#8217; reference to the three days Jonah spent in the fish mean that Jesus literally ascribed and testified to that, or does it mean He resorted to a widely understood story (whether fable or fact) as a shortcut to clarity? Did Jesus perhaps make the comment with a wink and a smile? How would we ever know?</p>
<p>Such subtleties become opague to us through translational error and cultural bias. Our Greek mindset causes us to take everything literally and to look for detail when there is none intended and to impart authority to even casual references &#8230;which, of course, can ruffle a lot of feathers and/or lead us into some fascinating discussions!</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett League</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542025</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett League</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542025</guid>
		<description>Hey Mike, great post, I&#039; d have to agree with just about every point, especially on Adam&#039;s historicity.  Might I suggest what the pink elephant in the room is once one accepts that Adam was the first covenant, representative figure and not the first H. sapien? How did his disobedience affect us, the humans that came before him, and those that lived along side him? How was original sin passed on, if not through ordinary generation, as I believe Westminster puts it? These are the sorts of Q&#039;s I&#039;d like to tackle head on at my blog in the upcoming weeks. I have some answers rattling around in my brain, just need time to make them presentable.

Kenny: &quot;Another thoughtâ€¦.

Are all humans today descendants of Adam?&quot;

The strong scientific consensus is no. Population genetics shows that, at no point in human history was the entire population bottlenecked at just two presumably Neolithic ANE people; there has always been a small population. Here&#039;s why: http://biologos.org/blog/does-genetics-point-to-a-single-primal-couple/
How do we deal with this evidence? Debunk it? Or re-evaluate traditional assumptions on Genesis? How about a little of both, and in the meantime, trust that this conundrum isn&#039;t taking God by surprise!  I think the evidence is a slam-dunk, but hey, some people think the traditional view of A&amp;E is an even bigger slam dunk. So, let&#039;s just speculate as to why either side might be wrong until Jesus comes back and we can ask Adam in person, eh? :)

Stephen: &quot;So where did the first humans come from? If you go with evolution, then when did God breathe his Spirit into us? When did we get souls? When did we transition from â€˜apeâ€™ to â€˜Godâ€™s Image-bearersâ€™?&quot; 

That&#039;s a great question! There are several positions on that, and they all have neat sounding names like &quot;punctiliar monogenism&quot; or &quot;gradual polygenism&quot; so, to go with the non-technical illustration that has helped me most, I like to compare humans receiving God&#039;s image to, well, humans receiving God&#039;s image, only in the womb. When do embryos attain the full image of God? How does that work? At what point in God&#039;s knitting process (&quot;You wove me in my motherâ€™s womb&quot;) does that happen? Does it happen after fertilization, at the zygote stage? Maybe after gastrulation? When the brain begins to form? Does it happen all at once, or gradually over the course of development? The best answer is: I have no clue, but God&#039;s at work knitting and he knows what he&#039;s doing. So don&#039;t interrupt (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQeOImZrrto). I suspect the mysterious process begins at fertilization and somehow culminates, in a way we don&#039;t fully grasp, as the child develops. Now apply that to human evolution: How/when did we become image-bearers? No idea, but God was at work, knitting us providentially in the womb of the earth. At some point after our &quot;fertilization&quot; as a species, we got to the point of development that we were able to be both self and God-conscious and God could finally say of us &quot;these are my most special creatures, since they alone are made in My image and after My likeness.&quot; For me, our uniqueness is a self-evident reality; how God gave it to us is up to Him. I think He had options and science tells us, generally, which one He took, at least regarding our physical equipment. When exactly it happened, we cannot know for sure. C.S. Lewis put it best: 

&quot;For long centuries, God perfected the animal from which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself. He gave it hands whose thumb could be applied to each of the fingers, and jaws and teeth and throat capable of articulation, and a brain sufficiently complex to execute all of the material motions whereby rational thought is incarnated [. . .] Then, in the fullness of time, God caused to descend upon this organism, both on its psychology and physiology, a new kind of consciousness which could say â€œIâ€ and â€œme,â€ which could look upon itself as an object, which knew God, which could make judgments of truth, beauty and goodness, and which was so far above time that it could perceive time flowing past&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mike, great post, I&#8217; d have to agree with just about every point, especially on Adam&#8217;s historicity.  Might I suggest what the pink elephant in the room is once one accepts that Adam was the first covenant, representative figure and not the first H. sapien? How did his disobedience affect us, the humans that came before him, and those that lived along side him? How was original sin passed on, if not through ordinary generation, as I believe Westminster puts it? These are the sorts of Q&#8217;s I&#8217;d like to tackle head on at my blog in the upcoming weeks. I have some answers rattling around in my brain, just need time to make them presentable.</p>
<p>Kenny: &#8220;Another thoughtâ€¦.</p>
<p>Are all humans today descendants of Adam?&#8221;</p>
<p>The strong scientific consensus is no. Population genetics shows that, at no point in human history was the entire population bottlenecked at just two presumably Neolithic ANE people; there has always been a small population. Here&#8217;s why: <a href="http://biologos.org/blog/does-genetics-point-to-a-single-primal-couple/" rel="nofollow">http://biologos.org/blog/does-genetics-point-to-a-single-primal-couple/</a><br />
How do we deal with this evidence? Debunk it? Or re-evaluate traditional assumptions on Genesis? How about a little of both, and in the meantime, trust that this conundrum isn&#8217;t taking God by surprise!  I think the evidence is a slam-dunk, but hey, some people think the traditional view of A&amp;E is an even bigger slam dunk. So, let&#8217;s just speculate as to why either side might be wrong until Jesus comes back and we can ask Adam in person, eh? <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Stephen: &#8220;So where did the first humans come from? If you go with evolution, then when did God breathe his Spirit into us? When did we get souls? When did we transition from â€˜apeâ€™ to â€˜Godâ€™s Image-bearersâ€™?&#8221; </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a great question! There are several positions on that, and they all have neat sounding names like &#8220;punctiliar monogenism&#8221; or &#8220;gradual polygenism&#8221; so, to go with the non-technical illustration that has helped me most, I like to compare humans receiving God&#8217;s image to, well, humans receiving God&#8217;s image, only in the womb. When do embryos attain the full image of God? How does that work? At what point in God&#8217;s knitting process (&#8220;You wove me in my motherâ€™s womb&#8221;) does that happen? Does it happen after fertilization, at the zygote stage? Maybe after gastrulation? When the brain begins to form? Does it happen all at once, or gradually over the course of development? The best answer is: I have no clue, but God&#8217;s at work knitting and he knows what he&#8217;s doing. So don&#8217;t interrupt (see: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQeOImZrrto" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQeOImZrrto</a>). I suspect the mysterious process begins at fertilization and somehow culminates, in a way we don&#8217;t fully grasp, as the child develops. Now apply that to human evolution: How/when did we become image-bearers? No idea, but God was at work, knitting us providentially in the womb of the earth. At some point after our &#8220;fertilization&#8221; as a species, we got to the point of development that we were able to be both self and God-conscious and God could finally say of us &#8220;these are my most special creatures, since they alone are made in My image and after My likeness.&#8221; For me, our uniqueness is a self-evident reality; how God gave it to us is up to Him. I think He had options and science tells us, generally, which one He took, at least regarding our physical equipment. When exactly it happened, we cannot know for sure. C.S. Lewis put it best: </p>
<p>&#8220;For long centuries, God perfected the animal from which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself. He gave it hands whose thumb could be applied to each of the fingers, and jaws and teeth and throat capable of articulation, and a brain sufficiently complex to execute all of the material motions whereby rational thought is incarnated [. . .] Then, in the fullness of time, God caused to descend upon this organism, both on its psychology and physiology, a new kind of consciousness which could say â€œIâ€ and â€œme,â€ which could look upon itself as an object, which knew God, which could make judgments of truth, beauty and goodness, and which was so far above time that it could perceive time flowing past&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-542003</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-542003</guid>
		<description>I really appreciate these posts. It has always baffled me that some people seem to ask of and derive from the text far more than it was ever intended to give. The purpose of Genesis as I see it is to set the stage for and begin telling the story of God&#039;s redemptive actions in human history. For this we need a few basic facts (God created, humans sinned, the world is fallen, humans rebelled against God, etc.) but we don&#039;t need, nor are we given, any detailed explanation for exactly how many of these things occurred. Yet so many seem to stake the entire faith on just such detailed explanations. 

I&#039;ve pretty much become a conscientious objector to the wars over issues like this, but it&#039;s discouraging to see so many continue to battle on. Jesus gets lost in the fray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciate these posts. It has always baffled me that some people seem to ask of and derive from the text far more than it was ever intended to give. The purpose of Genesis as I see it is to set the stage for and begin telling the story of God&#8217;s redemptive actions in human history. For this we need a few basic facts (God created, humans sinned, the world is fallen, humans rebelled against God, etc.) but we don&#8217;t need, nor are we given, any detailed explanation for exactly how many of these things occurred. Yet so many seem to stake the entire faith on just such detailed explanations. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve pretty much become a conscientious objector to the wars over issues like this, but it&#8217;s discouraging to see so many continue to battle on. Jesus gets lost in the fray.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-541967</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-541967</guid>
		<description>I also find it puzzling that other characters are already mentioned in this unfolding drama. Perhaps Cain was merely anticipating the future expansion of humanity, either through his own line or Shem.  But the Genesis 4 record does not supply us with those facts.  We are left with assumptions based on the evidence supplied.  I have no problem in taking the known information and drawing plausible conclusions.   Commentaries are full of them and many of them make perfect sense within a theological context.  But in order to maintain the position that this as an exact historical account requires the very sort of logic through inference that evolutionists are criticized for earlier in Genesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also find it puzzling that other characters are already mentioned in this unfolding drama. Perhaps Cain was merely anticipating the future expansion of humanity, either through his own line or Shem.  But the Genesis 4 record does not supply us with those facts.  We are left with assumptions based on the evidence supplied.  I have no problem in taking the known information and drawing plausible conclusions.   Commentaries are full of them and many of them make perfect sense within a theological context.  But in order to maintain the position that this as an exact historical account requires the very sort of logic through inference that evolutionists are criticized for earlier in Genesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Otter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-541897</link>
		<dc:creator>Otter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-541897</guid>
		<description>Good point, Briank.

Kids still have mythic minds, until we teach them to strap the text to a chair and beat it with rubber hoses until it gives up its (literal) meanings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Briank.</p>
<p>Kids still have mythic minds, until we teach them to strap the text to a chair and beat it with rubber hoses until it gives up its (literal) meanings.</p>
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		<title>By: Otter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/in-the-kings-garden-genesis-2-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-541890</link>
		<dc:creator>Otter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=9111#comment-541890</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a possible pointer as you work through it, Mike (and you&#039;re a lot smarter than I am, I&#039;m finding, so you may have thought of this already).

Myths are funny things.  They don&#039;t tolerate you looking at them and saying, &quot;Okay, this means literal truth X while this means literal truth Y.&quot;  I mean, you can do that, but the myth dies in your hands while you do it.  If you say things like, &quot;Bacchus represents the part of us that is wild and uncivilized,&quot; you might be accounting for yourself, but you&#039;re not living in the myth.

Paul has a mythic Jewish mind.  For him, it isn&#039;t a question of whether &quot;Adam really lived.&quot;  

Adam _means_ something, and catches up in himself the meaning that he means.  He is humankind.  And all die in humankind.

Adam&#039;s story is the myth that says so, and for him to say that death enters the world through one man is simply a necessity of not betraying the myth.  And since his larger (symmetrical) point is that through one man (a new &quot;son of Adam / humankind,&quot; the famous &quot;son of man&quot; epithet) all shall be made alive, he performs a way of balancing images.

The story, the true myth that he tells, is that humanity dies. 

But the Son of Adam is resurrected, and those who believe in him are made alive.

There is absolutely no reason why one must believe in the historicity of Adam to accept Paul&#039;s argument hook, line, and sinker: to say one must believe in Adam to believe the argument is like saying one must believe that Romans is poetry because the Psalms are poetry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a possible pointer as you work through it, Mike (and you&#8217;re a lot smarter than I am, I&#8217;m finding, so you may have thought of this already).</p>
<p>Myths are funny things.  They don&#8217;t tolerate you looking at them and saying, &#8220;Okay, this means literal truth X while this means literal truth Y.&#8221;  I mean, you can do that, but the myth dies in your hands while you do it.  If you say things like, &#8220;Bacchus represents the part of us that is wild and uncivilized,&#8221; you might be accounting for yourself, but you&#8217;re not living in the myth.</p>
<p>Paul has a mythic Jewish mind.  For him, it isn&#8217;t a question of whether &#8220;Adam really lived.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Adam _means_ something, and catches up in himself the meaning that he means.  He is humankind.  And all die in humankind.</p>
<p>Adam&#8217;s story is the myth that says so, and for him to say that death enters the world through one man is simply a necessity of not betraying the myth.  And since his larger (symmetrical) point is that through one man (a new &#8220;son of Adam / humankind,&#8221; the famous &#8220;son of man&#8221; epithet) all shall be made alive, he performs a way of balancing images.</p>
<p>The story, the true myth that he tells, is that humanity dies. </p>
<p>But the Son of Adam is resurrected, and those who believe in him are made alive.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason why one must believe in the historicity of Adam to accept Paul&#8217;s argument hook, line, and sinker: to say one must believe in Adam to believe the argument is like saying one must believe that Romans is poetry because the Psalms are poetry.</p>
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