Comments on: In Support of Open Membership

By: L.

L. — Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:34 +0000

“I find it ironic that Jesus himself wouldn’t qualify for the highest level of membership…”

I hear that frequently from folks who are opposed to membership. What, exactly, do they mean? It’s easy to say “Jesus would or wouldn’t… whatever”. I’m not sure any of us could say, ultimately, what Jesus would or would not do in all situations.
The “Jesus wouldn’t – couldn’t” arguement becomes an end-all statement.
Also, I can appreciate the concern of so many who consider themselves “called” or “gifted” in a particular area of service. Fine. But, I want to know if your “calling” or “gift” allows you to teach my children that they need to be (or, not be) baptized in order to be saved – whether they can lose (or, not lose) their salvation, etc.
There is a reason many churches require a statement of faith, and it isn’t simply to protect a clique or private club. There are many believers who are earnestly concerned that what their children are taught to believe lines up both with Scripture and their earnestly-held convictions as to those beliefs.

By: Wolf Paul

Wolf Paul — Sat, 08 May 2010 17:33:03 +0000

But of course those you are referring to here would not agree that what happened to you earlier really was baptism in the biblical sense. Baptists, for example, do not believe that sprinkling or pouring water on an infant, or even dunking him, is what Jesus was talking about when he told the disciples to baptize, because at the time of sprinkling/pouring/dunking that infant has not himself believed.

So for them they are not re-baptizing, they are simply obeying Christ’s command to baptize and make disciples.

They would say that anyone who does not understand that baptism follows faith and not the other way round does not have a proper understanding of baptism … they would say that “baptizing” an infant is no more biblical or spiritually effective as the Mormon practice of undergoing “baptism” for long-dead relatives.

By: Pat

Pat — Sat, 08 May 2010 11:46:01 +0000

Very relevant topic since that is one of the issues my own church has struggled with. In order for it to change, however, it requires a change in ideology among the leaders who enforce the requirements. And I have found that to be very difficult. My own approach has been to walk away from the topic and let the church be forced to deal with it when their numbers of members continues not to grow. At some point, they’ve got to get tired of whining about why more people won’t join and look within and say, “what can we do differently?” Until that happens, I’m afraid that change won’t come any time soon. Some people feel very threatened by the very thought of people not believing every single thing that is outlined in the denomination’s doctrinal stance. To t hese people, not having 100% conformity is as foreign as 100% conformity is to those of us who are more open thinkers. Sometimes I think it’s just easier to move on to a place where one finds more compatibility rather than trying to force one’s views on an institution. That only tends to lead to frustration and a lot of hard feelings and for the cause of Christ, is it worth it?

By: Larhanya

Larhanya — Fri, 07 May 2010 20:49:44 +0000

cpilgrim,
It sounds like you have an interesting church experience to be going “home” to when your husband graduates. As a fellow student in church limbo, I understand the excuse-making. My husband and I have finally said, ‘we’re staying here for another year if necessary just so we can settle into a church home.’ It’s been too long for us.
Re: rebaptism. I was christened as an infant and confirmed as a teenager (mostly out of family tradition–at the time I was already questioning the deity of Christ). I then drifted pretty far from the church. When I was 18 I made a commitment to be a follower of Jesus, and a number of years later found myself in a Baptist church I loved and to which I wanted to belong as a member.
Even though I had been a Christian for 6 years and had been christened as an infant, I chose to be rebaptised because I felt called to do so both out of obedience to God and as a public sign of becoming a member of this church. They would not have required it of me, though the pastor encouraged me to be rebaptised.
I am SO GLAD I did it. For me, my confirmation was not made in good faith, and my immersion baptism was my true confirmation that Jesus was Lord of my life. So I’d encourage you to pray and ask God if this is what he wants you to do, and if you feel he has moved you in that direction, then get you to the river!

By: KC

KC — Fri, 07 May 2010 13:10:04 +0000

After I received Christ (in my garden one afternoon!) I wasn’t baptized for more than 5 years, because I couldn’t affirm 100% of the statement of faith for the church we were attending. How wrong is that?

By: Patrick Lynch

Patrick Lynch — Fri, 07 May 2010 02:08:35 +0000

That makes good sense.

By: Wolf Paul

Wolf Paul — Thu, 06 May 2010 08:40:55 +0000

Actually, in practice, in the churches I know that have introduced this associate membership idea, the two-tier is only for formal, legal reasons and has no effect on everyday (or every Sunday church life. In fact, in most of those churches non-members participated on every level except the elder board, and the issue came up simply to know if and how such infant-baptized folks could be part of the elder board. There are no other restrictions for associate members.

By: luke

luke — Thu, 06 May 2010 05:24:21 +0000

People have mentioned creeds and I would recommend this Speaking of Faith program with Jaroslav Pelikan – “The Need for Creeds”:

http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2009/pelikan/

By: EricW

EricW — Thu, 06 May 2010 03:22:06 +0000

Right. Because unless one gets fully covered with water, one can’t be incorporated into the body of Christ. Only those parts that get wet are saved. Remember the story of Achilles….

By: In Support of Open Membership « Eclectic Christian

In Support of Open Membership « Eclectic Christian — Thu, 06 May 2010 03:00:18 +0000

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