Comments on: iMonk Classic: Dr. StrangeLiturgy

By: Don A.

Don A. — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:15:53 +0000

As a refugee from the Philippine brand of evangelicalism, I cannot begin to express full agreement with the iMonk’s post. It was through the solemn dignity of the local Presbyterians that guided me back on the road to being a high churchman. Candles, choirs, sacred architecture… and solid Biblical preaching where the sermon texts were large chunks of passages!

Rest in peace and rise in glory, Michael Spencer.

By: links for 2010-04-24 | The 'K' is not silent

links for 2010-04-24 | The 'K' is not silent — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 06:02:24 +0000

[...] Dr. StrangeLiturgy "Words ought not be thrown out as if they really didnâ€™t matter, and they shouldnâ€™t be used to manipulate in the way the world uses words to sell and corrupt." (tags: article editorial history liturgy ecclesiology theology internetmonk linguistics *) [...]

By: MAJ Tony

MAJ Tony — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:53:26 +0000

Here’s the Latin (S=Sacerdos “priest,” P=populum “people”)

S. Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you)

P. Et cum spiritu tuo (& with your spirit)

It sounds much cleaner chanted in Latin. Merely spoken, either way is good. I think that going back to the proper translation “spirit” might help to remind us that the hereafter is more important than the present. Lex orandi, lex credendi. (The law of prayer is the law of belief.)

By: Why liturgical worship? « Edge of Discovery

Why liturgical worship? « Edge of Discovery — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 23:20:52 +0000

[...] full article is available here on the iMonk site, so give it a read when you have a quarter-hour or so. Michael’s experience is not unique [...]

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:25:07 +0000

Michael,
Great post. I was raised in a liturgical church environment and “got saved” and was told that liturgical services were just part of the “dead orthodoxy”. Now, many years later I yearn for ORDER, something that takes the attention off of me and everyone else who comes to church…it would seem that liturgy keeps the flesh in its proper place by not giving it the opportunity to act out.

By: Spencer on Liturgy « After The Handbasket

Spencer on Liturgy « After The Handbasket — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:12:10 +0000

[...] Spencer on Liturgy April 12, 2010 Posted by Uri Brito in Liturgy. trackback The later Michael Spencer writes about his journey to liturgy; a must read! [...]

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:08:53 +0000

Excellent reply, Ragamuffin.

By: Greg R

Greg R — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:56:46 +0000

I’m very certain that Michael would have agreed with you on your last point, I know that I do. His defense of liturgical worship was no doubt driven because many in the ev. circle make sweeping, generalized, caricatures of what a liturgical service is all about. Quite often, when we hear the word “tradition” it’s in a phrase such as “dead traditions” or “the traditions of men”. In such a one sided atmosphere, Michael made a passionate appeal to hear the other side (ironically, from a southern baptist, but that’s the Monk for ya…..)

I don’t think anywhere in his post that Michael said “I LIKE IT and EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD ALSO…….”

Your points about repetion are ably answered by Ragamuffin below.

Rejoicing in hope
Greg R

By: Ragamuffin

Ragamuffin — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:33:28 +0000

Actually the Bible warns us of no such thing as “repetitious prayers.” It warns us against “vain” or “meaningless” repetition. The Greek I believe conveys the idea of babbling.

And I think where you miss the point about “vain/meaningless repetition” is that you emphasize the wrong part. The emphasis should be on “vain or meaningless” not on mere “repetition.” Because if the problem is repetition, even if it’s done in faith and with meaning and attention, then you’re going to have a lot of problems with things like Psalm 136 where the phrase “His love endures forever” is repeated 26 times. And remember, the Psalms were intended to either be read aloud together or sung. There is certainly repetition, but it’s anything but meaningless. Or at least if it is meaningless, it’s a problem of the participant’s heart and intentions, not the Psalm itself nor it’s use of repetitive phrases.

Then there are the angels described in Revelation who day and night for all eternity repeat the same phrase over and over again: “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come.” Is their prayer repetitive? Absolutely. Is it vain or meaningless. Not by a long shot.

By: Margaret Catherine

Margaret Catherine — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:31:48 +0000

As a Franciscan University graduate, I can relate. I love the liturgy, Roman or Byzantine, but sometimes…give me a Festival of Praise and ‘shambala shingis’ ringing out from every direction. Or p&w songs at Mass.