So much of its beliefs are borrowed capital from Rome, Geneva, or Wittenberg. Evangelicals have realy, really dumbed down a lot. Check out http://www.whitehorseinn.com for critiques of American Christianity from a classical Reformation perspective. I do admire some Protestant theology – even if only as a worthy sparring partner. However I lean more toward the Stott/Packer end of Evangelicalism in my tastes. Reformed Anglicanism is still in the same ballpark. A lot of non-denominational theology is really Dispensationalism and can sound weird.

Moreover everything seems to depend on the preacher. The cult of personality distorts the message.

Of course the Catholic Church in America has its own problems.

Perhaps a dose of real persecution is what the church needs. It may be that the Lord is pruning us.

Let me challenge you.

“However there are authentic examples of anti Christian hatred directed at the innocent. In the US it rarely amounts to much more than an insult or social snub; being passed over for a promotion might be the worst effect.”

This is entirely possible, just as it is possible for anyone belonging to any number of groups, religious and otherwise. Let’s see if it applies especially to Christians.

Here are my challenges, to Memphis or any other who thinks that Christians are a significantly persecuted group in the United States:

1. Without the aid of Google or any Internet search tool, name five presidents in U.S. history who were openly non-Christian.

2. Without the aid of Google or any Internet search tool, name five contemporary American politicians who openly admit to not being Christian.

3. Without the aid of Google or any Internet search tool, name 10 politicians in history or contemporary politics who are/were obviously not Christian, whether they admit(ted) it or not.

How’d you do? Could you successfully complete the first two challenges? The third one was easy, of course.

There is some truth to what you say, but if being a Christian in the United States is the anathema many paint it to be, why is it so convenient to be one in politics–the ultimate in popularity contests, as it were?

Admit it: Christians are arguably the LEAST PERSECUTED religious category (even if you include agnostics and atheists) in the United States today.

Yes, being persecuted for being a Christian–and, more importantly, perceiving this as a good thing–is a very prevalent theme, as are many themes taken from the Bible.

Makes me wonder, are American Christians taking the Biblical golden rule to its ultimate conclusion when they decide to persecute and look down upon the practitioners of other religions? You want to be hated and persecuted, therefore you should hate and persecute others?

I’m kidding, of course. But can you see the warning suggested by my ridiculous example?

Be very, very careful about using the Bible to defend *any* kind of anti-social behavior, especially those that differ markedly from Jesus’s. I’m pointing the finger mostly at positions of hatred that are consistently defended by Biblical passages, but I also point the finger at Christians who deliberately antagonize others as I described above.

I’ll repeat myself, just because I think this is the most important thing I have typed on this page. A bit of common sense, this:

Generally speaking, if you are a good Christian, and follow Jesus’s example, people will NOT look at you with disgust. People will NOT run away from you in horror. And, I’m sorry to disappoint some of you, but people will NOT hate you for your religion.

History and notable exceptions aside, this idea that Christians are hated and persecuted in the contemporary United States is mostly a myth, and, even worse, a self-serving myth. It’s used as an excuse for a number of varieties of anti-social behavior. Can you imagine Jesus ever using God’s authority (i.e., the Bible) to serve his own ego in this way?

That’s not the Jesus I know.

-Moon

You are correct about other countries. Being Christian in some countries can bring you death.

But about 170 years ago this was the case for 1 religious group: The LDS (Mormons).

On October 27, 1838 Missouri Governor Lilburn W. Boggs signed a military order directing that the Mormons (LDS) be driven from the state or exterminated. This was not repealed until June 25, 1976 by Governor Christopher S. Bond.

You can find more information at:
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Extermination_Order

You make a good point that there can be an us vs them mentality and, honestly, the hostility to Christians is deserved whenever Christians behave like jerks. We are flawed messengers and get caught up our own prejudices and desires and too frequently let that distort the message.

However there are authentic examples of anti Christian hatred directed at the innocent. In the US it rarely amounts to much more than an insult or social snub; being passed over for a promotion might be the worst effect. By contrast, in many other countries being Christian is a dangerous life threatening pursuit.

Finally the suffering for belief theme is authentically and intrinsically Christian, not merely an assumption. It can certainly get self-righteous and ring false, but it is a major part of Christian dogma. Recall Christ himself was ridiculed, tortured publicly and executed. Why did that happen, since he certainly was loving and generous, healing and feeding the sick and the poor? He was killed because he was a threat, a threat to the worldly powers of the age. Can you seriously argue that no worldly power in our time perceives Christianity as a threat? Take China for example or the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Iran or even regions of India.

I am a believer, but have come to despise the phrase “christian” as much as fundamentalist is spurned by modern society. Jesus was not a christian. He was jewish, but not a Jew (in the practising religion sense).

Love God, and love the dirty little man down the road. The rest is just hypocrisy.

Thank you, Memphis. I’m going to have to respectfully disagree, and in a way that applies especially to evangelicals who wish for non-Christians to become Christians.

This us-vs-them mentality is rampant among followers of Abrahamic religions, comparatively speaking, and it is utterly unnecessary. If you really want to follow Jesus’s example, you are going to have to let it go.

There are many posters on this page who, much more than you just did, cling to their assumptions that there is something good and honorable about being despised for their choice of religion. Indeed, one could almost say that they go out of their way to encourage others to despise them for their beliefs. Is this not the point of this page’s article?

If you are a good Christian, and follow Jesus’s example, people will NOT look at you with disgust. People will NOT run away from you in horror. And, I’m sorry to disappoint some of you, but people will NOT hate you for your religion.

On the contrary, people will love you, which is exactly to be expected, because you are a wonderful person. A Jesus-like person. And they will ask how you managed to become such a wonderful person. What better opening could there be for explaining Christianity? What more respectful method could there be for pursuing an openly, honestly proselytistic agenda?

I went back to look at the comments in question (which I admit I didn’t look at before) and you’re right there are rhetorical excesses certainly.

I was once and atheist/agnostic and I have great sympathy for the honest pursuit of the truth. I understand why as a scientist one might not seriously explore faith, which is inherently outside the empirical and therefore appears alien. That was my point.

I believe that to be a mistake and a loss , but certainly an understandable one. We Christians must recall that our faith is a great gift, given as an answered prayer. The value of faith is from God not ourselves and pride in it is misplaced and such pride interferes with the message of hope.

You seem to have partially missed the point. At the risk of being presumptuous, I would suggest that, in your reply above, you scratch out “ridiculous” and replace it with “mind-bendingly, hideously, repulsively arrogant” (this is referring to Mike Bull’s post, of course). Then you will be on the right track.

You may not realize that we Christians actually expect to sound ridiculous to unbelievers and are even warned of it in the Bible. But we who believe accept that ridicule as necessary. Saint Paul even welcomed it as the meritorious suffering that would yield a heavenly reward. Of course Christianity is either true or madness. It can not be a halfway belief.