Comments on: iMonk 101: The Magnificent Young Men and Their Pastoring Machines (Revisited)

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:30:04 +0000

Just my first impression of these “Young Pastors” from the title:

“Up! Down!
Flying around!
Looping the loop
Then plowing into the ground!”

By: DaveMc

DaveMc — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:16:28 +0000

Treebeard: On leaven: Yes, I was thinking of the positive effects of leaven. But, no, you are correct and I’m wrong. I have no idea where I got that misinterpretation of scripture.

Thanks for pointing that out. I need to read more and post less!

By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell

Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:27:29 +0000

Rob,

When growth becomes the primary focus a body suffers.

Absolutely.

Christ always needs to be the primary focus. What should follow from that is discipleship. Discipleship, if taught properly will lead to the creation of new disciples. Growth then, both spiritually and numerically, is not a goal, or a primary focus, but something that should come naturally out of healthy churches.

By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell

Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:21:25 +0000

Rob,

I had stupidly thought we trying to reach the entire world... The obsession with growth IS the problem.

When you try to reach the entire world, sometimes numerical growth is going to be a natural by-product. I have never had any sense that either of these Pastor's were obsessed about growth. As for target audience, God used seniors to reach out to and minister to seniors, and young families to reach out to and minister to young families. In both cases I can point to examples how their vision was far smaller than what actually happened.

By the way. That demographic also happened by chance to be the best tithers.

Nonsense. The older you are the more you give, on both a numerical and percentage basis. For Canadian giving patterns try this link. For U.S. giving patterns try this link. These were the first google results that came up for each query, and are consistent with what I saw for years when working as Research and Information Manager of a Canadian Mission Agency.

By: Rob

Rob — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:00:40 +0000

When growth becomes the primary focus a body suffers.
I have lived through it.

By: Anna A

Anna A — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:37:48 +0000

Jayson,

While not a church staffer, I hope that you don’t mind me commenting on your desires.

I am looking at the practical. Are you going to be able to support your family without any money coming in from the new church? Are you going to be able to give enough time and enough of your own money to do this. I suspect that at first, it will take both from you. I would also make the worst case assumptions (ie highest time and lowest money) when you calculate the risk.

I truly hope that this is your calling, and that God will bless you, your family and your flock if you do this.

By: Jayson

Jayson — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:25:25 +0000

Mr. Spencer I really enjoyed this article. I am a young (31) pastor in a medium church in a large city who is considering where the LORD will lead me and my family to engage in lifetime ministry. I shocked my wife with the suggestion that we move to her hometown of less than 500 and start a small church to serve a shrinking and somewhat shaky community. It seems to me that the church growth movement has diverted attention from small town America and placed it mainly on urban and suburban America. The result is that rural communities are left in the dust. Pastors see these churches/communities as places to cut their teeth and move on rather than commit and faithfully pastor for life. The biggest result that I can see is poor discipleship. There’s certainly other ill-effects. Any thoughts?

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:38:51 +0000

Very timely regardless of the time written. I really had the motivation to study this a few years ago when our church “lost” its pastor. The elders and I as head deacon spent a great deal of time in prayer and study as to what we needed in a pastor. After a great deal of time spent in the book of Acts we actually discovered that we were perhaps led astray in what a pastor was supposed to be. Much of the “pastoral care” should really belong to the elders and deacons/deaconesses. The pastor is not the same as an evagelist, teacher, etc. But all that needs to work together to build up the body of Christ.

Pastor has unfortunately become a catch all position, it relieves the body from the burden of actually doing anything. Emphasis on preaching is a great starting point.

By: Rob

Rob — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:45:54 +0000

By the way. That demographic also happened by chance to be the best tithers.

By: Rob

Rob — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:44:44 +0000

Meaning no disrespect whatsoever but both situations described in Eclectic Christian’s first post are exactly the kind of thinking that has driven me and thousands maybe millions of believers out of the evangelical fold.
Target audience?
Are they selling cars or toasters?
It reminds me of the shocking conversation I had with an associate pastor at a fledgling (now full blown) mega-church about demographics.
I had stupidly thought we trying to reach the entire world or at least the entire community and not be a boutique for 32-38 year old engineers with 1-2 children who were upwardly mobile and unchurched.
“both done what has been needed to lead their churches in significant growth”
The obsession with growth IS the problem.