Comments on: iMonk 101: Jesus, Joel and The Hard Parts of the Gospel http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:00:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Zman http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-2#comment-425751 Zman Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:24:24 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-425751 MAJ Tony, As stated in the above reference my comments were not in direct relation to an individual sinful act but rather to the whole broad concept of sin. I believe our sin has been completely covered, past, present and future so in reality sin is no longer an issue in my life. It is finished. However, am I perfect in my fleshly body, absolutely not? I can still "trespass" which is simply going (doing) something I should not. Do I need to ask forgiveness? No! Forgiveness has already been taken care of. Nothing I do or don't do can change this. We are a people consumed by a sin-conscious nature that is keeping us in bondage by preventing us from recognizing our true identity in Christ. The answer is a revelation of GRACE. If Father looks at me and he sees His son (me) as righteous I should also see myself in the same way. For many years I saw myself as a sinner, redeemed yes but still a sinner. No more. I am a son of the living God, a son, an heir, a priest and king. In Romans 8:11 it says, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. The Spirit lives in me; I am now a temple of God. This to me is the best indicator of how Father sees me, holy and righteous. In the Old Testament the temple or tabernacle had to be built exactly to the design of God before He would come and dwell there. I am now that dwelling place declared by Father as a perfect place for His Spirit to live. I realize some of my beliefs may seem radical but so were Jesus teachings but only to the religious leaders. I have let Holy Spirit be my one and only teacher not man. I believe Satan has kept us in bondage by blinding us to who we really are in Christ. He keeps reminding us of sin which in turn creates guilt. And many would say that is a good thing, it is our conscious at work but truly it only perpetuates condemnation which keeps us in a vicious cycle of never thinking we are adequate. But the truth is therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:1-2 Then when you couple that with the next verse we will begin to understand and experience freedom that Jesus knew. Romans 8:14-15 says 4 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" We are sons and because we are sons we are afforded all the rights as a son. And once we know in the depth of our heart that we are sons of God we can begin to understand the fullness of grace which will put sin into its proper perspective. Also on a side note. That passage you referred to about the woman caught in adultery is a somewhat contested passage. Most early manuscripts don’t recognize the passage. MAJ Tony,

As stated in the above reference my comments were not in direct relation to an individual sinful act but rather to the whole broad concept of sin. I believe our sin has been completely covered, past, present and future so in reality sin is no longer an issue in my life. It is finished. However, am I perfect in my fleshly body, absolutely not? I can still “trespass” which is simply going (doing) something I should not. Do I need to ask forgiveness? No! Forgiveness has already been taken care of. Nothing I do or don’t do can change this.

We are a people consumed by a sin-conscious nature that is keeping us in bondage by preventing us from recognizing our true identity in Christ. The answer is a revelation of GRACE. If Father looks at me and he sees His son (me) as righteous I should also see myself in the same way.

For many years I saw myself as a sinner, redeemed yes but still a sinner. No more. I am a son of the living God, a son, an heir, a priest and king. In Romans 8:11 it says, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. The Spirit lives in me; I am now a temple of God. This to me is the best indicator of how Father sees me, holy and righteous.

In the Old Testament the temple or tabernacle had to be built exactly to the design of God before He would come and dwell there. I am now that dwelling place declared by Father as a perfect place for His Spirit to live.

I realize some of my beliefs may seem radical but so were Jesus teachings but only to the religious leaders. I have let Holy Spirit be my one and only teacher not man.

I believe Satan has kept us in bondage by blinding us to who we really are in Christ. He keeps reminding us of sin which in turn creates guilt. And many would say that is a good thing, it is our conscious at work but truly it only perpetuates condemnation which keeps us in a vicious cycle of never thinking we are adequate. But the truth is therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:1-2

Then when you couple that with the next verse we will begin to understand and experience freedom that Jesus knew. Romans 8:14-15 says 4 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” We are sons and because we are sons we are afforded all the rights as a son. And once we know in the depth of our heart that we are sons of God we can begin to understand the fullness of grace which will put sin into its proper perspective.

Also on a side note. That passage you referred to about the woman caught in adultery is a somewhat contested passage. Most early manuscripts don’t recognize the passage.

]]> By: DENISE http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-2#comment-425234 DENISE Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:33:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-425234 MAJ Tony, I'm not Zman but I think you missed his whole point which was not even about sin,but since you brought it up please allow me a word. I believe the answer is GRACE. We the church have yet to understand grace. Paul faced this very thing when he wrote to the church at Galatia. We say we believe He covered our sin but then we revert back to the law and works.We cannot mix the law with grace and yet, sadly, this is how the majority of the church lives. Paul preached radical grace,by faith. He said to the Galatian church,..."you are foolish to think you can complete by your own efforts, what was begun by the Spirit..." Gal. ch. 3. For eons now, the church says,"come, recieve by faith",,and than afterwards says,,do this , don't do that, go to church, read your bible, spend quiet time, do not sin,,pray harder,,etc., etc. If we believe our sin is covered,then,just as the Galatians, we are foolish to think we can attain to anything in our own efforts. All we need to do is believe. Are we the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus or not?? If He says we are then we are. Are we holy or not? if He says we are then we are!! Here is what happens. We recieve and then we look at our life which fall far short ,,we walk by sight and NOT by faith,,,,YES,,WE DO,,,and that is exactly why Jesus went to the cross. You see, Paul's grace message was so radical that this question was asked,,,"...so does this mean we can go on sinning...",,sound familiar? I believe the truth is this,,,it is impossible for us to sin,,in Gods eyes. Jesus said it was finished. He took our sin an destroyed it,,threw it as far as the east is to the west!!! We are the only one who see's our sin and boy are we good at that. We judge ourselves and we judge others. See the real good news is just too good for us to believe and keep on believing. He says we are excellent and He is totally delighted in us but we see that we sin and fall short and then we say we are sorry and we work and work, and after we think we are sorry enough,we come around and accept His grace again. WOW!!! He said, ALL of our righteousness is like filthy rags. Most true believers know we cannot save ourself but then after grace by faith,,we fall for the devils lies. Now,, I have had people say,,but,,but,,sin has to be punished. Then I agree,,,sin does have to be punished,,AND IT WAS!!! It is finished,,just like He said. Jesus also died to cleanse our conciousness of sin. To redeem us from sin conciousness. Remember, the first Adam ate from the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil,,,bam,,,there it was,,he was all of a sudden,,concious of his nakedness. See Jesus, the 2nd Adam changed all that for us, and it is not as though we appear righteous and holy before Almighty Father,,because of the sacrifice ,,,WE ARE,,WE ARE RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY!!! We have to stop looking at sin, and believe God. I believe this is how we actually find the rest that is talked about in Hebrews. God did not rest on the last day because he was tired,,,He rested because he was finished,,IT IS FINISHED and we need only believe, recieve and rest!!! Now to me,,THIS IS REALLY GOOD NEWS!! Finally,, the really big delima,,,does this give me a liscence to sin,,,no way,,I'm so thankful I can finally enter His rest. It is all about Fathers love for me,,it is no longer about sin or even what I do for him. MAJ Tony, I’m not Zman but I think you missed his whole point which was not even about sin,but since you brought it up please allow me a word. I believe the answer is GRACE. We the church have yet to understand grace. Paul faced this very thing when he wrote to the church at Galatia. We say we believe He covered our sin but then we revert back to the law and works.We cannot mix the law with grace and yet, sadly, this is how the majority of the church lives. Paul preached radical grace,by faith. He said to the Galatian church,…”you are foolish to think you can complete by your own efforts, what was begun by the Spirit…” Gal. ch. 3. For eons now, the church says,”come, recieve by faith”,,and than afterwards says,,do this , don’t do that, go to church, read your bible, spend quiet time, do not sin,,pray harder,,etc., etc. If we believe our sin is covered,then,just as the Galatians, we are foolish to think we can attain to anything in our own efforts. All we need to do is believe. Are we the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus or not?? If He says we are then we are. Are we holy or not? if He says we are then we are!! Here is what happens. We recieve and then we look at our life which fall far short ,,we walk by sight and NOT by faith,,,,YES,,WE DO,,,and that is exactly why Jesus went to the cross. You see, Paul’s grace message was so radical that this question was asked,,,”…so does this mean we can go on sinning…”,,sound familiar? I believe the truth is this,,,it is impossible for us to sin,,in Gods eyes. Jesus said it was finished. He took our sin an destroyed it,,threw it as far as the east is to the west!!! We are the only one who see’s our sin and boy are we good at that. We judge ourselves and we judge others. See the real good news is just too good for us to believe and keep on believing. He says we are excellent and He is totally delighted in us but we see that we sin and fall short and then we say we are sorry and we work and work, and after we think we are sorry enough,we come around and accept His grace again. WOW!!! He said, ALL of our righteousness is like filthy rags. Most true believers know we cannot save ourself but then after grace by faith,,we fall for the devils lies. Now,, I have had people say,,but,,but,,sin has to be punished. Then I agree,,,sin does have to be punished,,AND IT WAS!!! It is finished,,just like He said.
Jesus also died to cleanse our conciousness of sin. To redeem us from sin conciousness. Remember, the first Adam ate from the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil,,,bam,,,there it was,,he was all of a sudden,,concious of his nakedness. See Jesus, the 2nd Adam changed all that for us, and it is not as though we appear righteous and holy before Almighty Father,,because of the sacrifice ,,,WE ARE,,WE ARE RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY!!! We have to stop looking at sin, and believe God. I believe this is how we actually find the rest that is talked about in Hebrews. God did not rest on the last day because he was tired,,,He rested because he was finished,,IT IS FINISHED and we need only believe, recieve and rest!!! Now to me,,THIS IS REALLY GOOD NEWS!! Finally,, the really big delima,,,does this give me a liscence to sin,,,no way,,I’m so thankful I can finally enter His rest. It is all about Fathers love for me,,it is no longer about sin or even what I do for him.

]]> By: MAJ Tony http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-2#comment-424249 MAJ Tony Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:16:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-424249 Zman: what about the part where Jesus tells (insert particular sinner here) "go and sin no more." Are you saying don't worry about your current state insofar as the commission of sins? Zman: what about the part where Jesus tells (insert particular sinner here) “go and sin no more.” Are you saying don’t worry about your current state insofar as the commission of sins?

]]> By: D.R. Randle http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-2#comment-423437 D.R. Randle Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:45:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-423437 Michael, interesting perspective on "how discipleship becomes the focus AFTER Jesus brings the cross into view." I have been preaching through Mark for almost a year now, and I preached on the confession of Peter this morning, noting that William Lane called it the turning point of the Book. I am preaching on 8:34ff next week, so I am going to have to think about your post-cross discipleship statement. That may give me a different angle to explore. The perspective I took this morning was to focus on how Peter understood that Jesus was the Messiah, but didn't know what that meant, and so he was in a way like the blind man in the previous pericope, who Jesus healed in stages. Then I focused on the word "logos" as a signal that what Jesus revealed was the Gospel, and compared that to 1 Cor. 15. Finally, I highlighted the fact that as soon as Jesus revealed the Gospel and spoke "the word" plainly, Mark records Jesus' words regarding discipleship, as a natural reaction to the Gospel. As someone who has studied Mark so deeply, I wonder what feedback you would give me as to my sermon this week and what you advice you might give me for next week. Also, I just purchased Robert Stein's new commentary on Mark (BECNT) and wonder if you have had a chance to check it out. I thought it was much better so far than R.T. France (NIGTC) or William Lane (NICNT), though I wish Stein would focus less on answering "liberal" view points. Michael, interesting perspective on “how discipleship becomes the focus AFTER Jesus brings the cross into view.” I have been preaching through Mark for almost a year now, and I preached on the confession of Peter this morning, noting that William Lane called it the turning point of the Book. I am preaching on 8:34ff next week, so I am going to have to think about your post-cross discipleship statement. That may give me a different angle to explore.

The perspective I took this morning was to focus on how Peter understood that Jesus was the Messiah, but didn’t know what that meant, and so he was in a way like the blind man in the previous pericope, who Jesus healed in stages.

Then I focused on the word “logos” as a signal that what Jesus revealed was the Gospel, and compared that to 1 Cor. 15. Finally, I highlighted the fact that as soon as Jesus revealed the Gospel and spoke “the word” plainly, Mark records Jesus’ words regarding discipleship, as a natural reaction to the Gospel.

As someone who has studied Mark so deeply, I wonder what feedback you would give me as to my sermon this week and what you advice you might give me for next week.

Also, I just purchased Robert Stein’s new commentary on Mark (BECNT) and wonder if you have had a chance to check it out. I thought it was much better so far than R.T. France (NIGTC) or William Lane (NICNT), though I wish Stein would focus less on answering “liberal” view points.

]]> By: Zman http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-2#comment-422238 Zman Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:36:45 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-422238 Joel Osteen is right, we can have our best life now, the only problem is in his definition of “best life”. Jesus (the second Adam) came to restore what the first Adam lost and I believe it is for us now. The Kingdom of Heaven is here and we are to experience it fully and completely NOW. One question that might be asked and a belief that has permeated the Spirit-filled church; Was Jesus rich? Are we to be rich? We must look to the spiritual definition of riches. Jesus had no treasures built up here on earth but when a need arose He met the need. That is true wealth. This is different from being rich. The church must look different from the world and frankly right now there are too many similarities. The life of Jesus is our example, He walked, preached and breathed the Kingdom and you are right this is a message lost to modern Christianity. Jesus did not preach salvation and only mentioned it when it was asked of Him. Remember the first words of both John the Baptist and Jesus when they started their ministry. Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:1-2 (NASU); From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 (NASU) This is the message from Jesus from His ministry from beginning to end. Maybe we need to take a closer and deeper look. The Kingdom is all about GRACE the message the church is preaching today is based primarily on sin-conscientious. This has been 100% covered by the blood of Christ. I will ask then, what part of forgiveness don’t you understand? The “Great Commission” has even been distorted. It is now all about salvation (this could get me off on another whole direction, another time) which is only a small part of the Gospel. Matthew 24:14 states that "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. NASU In Mark 16:17 it says "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; This part of the Gospel is rarely taught. Why? Because we have been taught these things have past. Funny how we will dissect the scripture and use only what is in our religious comfort zone. To sum up, we will begin to understand the Kingdom when we understand who we are in Christ. I don’t just mean the knowledge that we are saved and going to heaven. I mean our true identity. We are still taught that we are servants/slaves of Christ but Jesus said, in John 15:15 "No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. (NASU) Jesus also tells us in 2 Cor 5:21 of our position and status to Father; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (NASU) We are sons and daughters of Heavenly Father which gives us all the rights and authority afforded legal heirs. In Galations 4:6 it says; Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" WOW!! Abba translated “daddy” is the most intimate relationship we can have with Father and only His children have the right to call him this, not servants. I may serve Christ but no longer am I his “servant”. This is awesome. Joel Osteen is right, we can have our best life now, the only problem is in his definition of “best life”. Jesus (the second Adam) came to restore what the first Adam lost and I believe it is for us now. The Kingdom of Heaven is here and we are to experience it fully and completely NOW.

One question that might be asked and a belief that has permeated the Spirit-filled church; Was Jesus rich? Are we to be rich? We must look to the spiritual definition of riches. Jesus had no treasures built up here on earth but when a need arose He met the need. That is true wealth. This is different from being rich. The church must look different from the world and frankly right now there are too many similarities.

The life of Jesus is our example, He walked, preached and breathed the Kingdom and you are right this is a message lost to modern Christianity. Jesus did not preach salvation and only mentioned it when it was asked of Him. Remember the first words of both John the Baptist and Jesus when they started their ministry. Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 3:1-2 (NASU); From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17 (NASU) This is the message from Jesus from His ministry from beginning to end. Maybe we need to take a closer and deeper look. The Kingdom is all about GRACE the message the church is preaching today is based primarily on sin-conscientious. This has been 100% covered by the blood of Christ. I will ask then, what part of forgiveness don’t you understand?

The “Great Commission” has even been distorted. It is now all about salvation (this could get me off on another whole direction, another time) which is only a small part of the Gospel. Matthew 24:14 states that “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. NASU In Mark 16:17 it says “These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; This part of the Gospel is rarely taught. Why? Because we have been taught these things have past. Funny how we will dissect the scripture and use only what is in our religious comfort zone.

To sum up, we will begin to understand the Kingdom when we understand who we are in Christ. I don’t just mean the knowledge that we are saved and going to heaven. I mean our true identity. We are still taught that we are servants/slaves of Christ but Jesus said, in John 15:15 “No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. (NASU) Jesus also tells us in 2 Cor 5:21 of our position and status to Father; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (NASU) We are sons and daughters of Heavenly Father which gives us all the rights and authority afforded legal heirs. In Galations 4:6 it says; Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” WOW!! Abba translated “daddy” is the most intimate relationship we can have with Father and only His children have the right to call him this, not servants. I may serve Christ but no longer am I his “servant”. This is awesome.

]]> By: DENISE http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-421792 DENISE Sat, 04 Apr 2009 03:36:01 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-421792 WOW! You are surely on the right track. When I read this, Holy One brought this to my mind; "...and when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM is preached into all the world,,,THEN the end shall come..." I do believe the church has been dooped,,,the enemy dosent care what gospel gets preached,,as long as it is not the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM,,which,,by the way,,is about a King, and His kids ruling this earth ,,yes,,,yes,,,just as it is in heaven!!!! GLORY TO FATHER!!! WOW! You are surely on the right track. When I read this, Holy One brought this to my mind;

“…and when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM is preached into all the world,,,THEN the end shall come…”

I do believe the church has been dooped,,,the enemy dosent care what gospel gets preached,,as long as it is not the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM,,which,,by the way,,is about a King, and His kids ruling this earth ,,yes,,,yes,,,just as it is in heaven!!!! GLORY TO FATHER!!!

]]> By: Bill http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-420194 Bill Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:46:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-420194 J, I have visited Israel several times on an archaeology study,and I know that some scholars believe that there is evidence to show that the house that was believed to be Peters house in Capernaum was in fact the home of Jesus(mark 2v1?) It was over 20 years ago that I learned that fact and I am at a lost right now to recall my source. I made that statement and I believe it is my responsibility to back that up. I will need to do some research on my notes and get back to you. J,

I have visited Israel several times on an archaeology study,and I know that some scholars believe that there is evidence to show that the house that was believed to be Peters house in Capernaum was in fact the home of Jesus(mark 2v1?) It was over 20 years ago that I learned that fact and I am at a lost right now to recall my source. I made that statement and I believe it is my responsibility to back that up. I will need to do some research on my notes and get back to you.

]]> By: Aaron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-420175 Aaron Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:21:49 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-420175 imonk, Spot on, as usual. To me, the most frightening passage in the Bible is Matthew 7:21-23. Not the kind of passage you're likely to hear from O'Steen's pulpit: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" If that passage does not shake you to the core as a Christian, you are deluding yourself. I don't think doing God's will includes determining how to increase the size of your investment portfolio or working to put someone into political office while calling the other side of the aisle "Godless". We will have a lot to answer for some day. I don't want Jesus to tell me He never knew me. imonk,

Spot on, as usual. To me, the most frightening passage in the Bible is Matthew 7:21-23. Not the kind of passage you’re likely to hear from O’Steen’s pulpit:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

If that passage does not shake you to the core as a Christian, you are deluding yourself. I don’t think doing God’s will includes determining how to increase the size of your investment portfolio or working to put someone into political office while calling the other side of the aisle “Godless”. We will have a lot to answer for some day. I don’t want Jesus to tell me He never knew me.

]]> By: Jenny http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-420133 Jenny Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:34:11 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-420133 Thanks for your reply, Bill. I wasn't trying, at all, to make you or anyone feel condemned, in that sense...looking back at what I wrote, I can see that the "tongue-in-cheekness" that I meant to come through didn't! I guess what I was trying to say is that perhaps Jesus does want us to sell our possessions, love our enemies, forgive 70 x 7 times...but most of the time we don't, I don't. His standard is so high...we're so far off... I guess I've just heard too many times the phrase "everything I have is the Lord's; if he asked me to sell everything, then I would!" from someone sitting in a cozy house with a fat bank account. I'd rather hear them say (and hear myself say) "Yes, I have a lot of stuff and I don't really want to sell it and give it to God. I'm a kinda sucky Christian." Don't get me wrong -I really like your idea that the "sell everything" part just applied back then; it really lets me off the hook! I hope that you're right, because life's a lot easier for me that way! ;) Thanks for your reply, Bill. I wasn’t trying, at all, to make you or anyone feel condemned, in that sense…looking back at what I wrote, I can see that the “tongue-in-cheekness” that I meant to come through didn’t! I guess what I was trying to say is that perhaps Jesus does want us to sell our possessions, love our enemies, forgive 70 x 7 times…but most of the time we don’t, I don’t. His standard is so high…we’re so far off…

I guess I’ve just heard too many times the phrase “everything I have is the Lord’s; if he asked me to sell everything, then I would!” from someone sitting in a cozy house with a fat bank account. I’d rather hear them say (and hear myself say) “Yes, I have a lot of stuff and I don’t really want to sell it and give it to God. I’m a kinda sucky Christian.” Don’t get me wrong -I really like your idea that the “sell everything” part just applied back then; it really lets me off the hook! I hope that you’re right, because life’s a lot easier for me that way! ;)

]]> By: Framy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-jesus-joel-and-the-hard-parts-of-the-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-420132 Framy Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:33:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3005#comment-420132 Hi Siblings, I see that some of us are starting to understand who Jesus is and what He came here to say and do. Jesus didn't say to reject but to help those who are confused and were put into this world in a different belief/religion. He said to ask in His name but He didn't say that if you don't ask in His name your doomed. He loves and gives to all equally good or bad, aware or ignorant, forgive for they know not what they do. Jesus wasn't kidding, this is the creator Son of God talking to us, bringing/inseminating our little planet with the Word of God from our Father in Mind. He said take up your cross and follow me, live as I did with the Father our Father as your guide. He wasn't saying to all become preachers and followers but to discover personally as He did living in Faith. It's saddening to see the throngs of young siblings lost and following preachers who don't live as He did. He didn't say take up my cross but take up your cross. Siblings, go within and talk with the Father and still your mind and listen, feel, not to words but to the loving, touching feelings of care and presence of His Spirit that gives strength and Faith in who you are. Now, how can christians say they love Jesus when they act in war, live for money/success in the world and reject their siblings who don't believe like they do, even condemn them? They are doing the same thing the Jews did/do to Jesus and His followers. I'm not asking for an answer, because love of thy neighbour is the answer. You may want to awaken to the real Jesus instead of the interpretations that are made by each and everyone of the false preachers, wolves dressed in lambs clothing. Living the teachings of Jesus is not interpretation of the Bible or any other book, it's living as he lived His religion(personal relationship with our Father/Creator). Sadly, humans tend to use scripture and interpret for themselves, excluding others who see it differently and create all these divisions even those who say they believe the word of God. The word of God is the Word of Jesus God in the flesh, and what did He say? Love your siblings, humans, brothers and sisters, neighbours, enemies, He didn't say create different factions of beliefs in the scriptures, heck He didn't even leave any writings. Did you ever ask yourselves why? Live as He lived in His commandment Love one another as I Loved you. He is the way not the human organizations of theoretic beliefs, living in their intellects forgetting their heart where Jesus dwells. Did you know that Faith is not belief. Faith is a personal relationship with our Father just as Jesus had/has. Following Jesus is not following doctrines or preachers who talk about Jesus and don't live according to His Word. There are Truths in all corners of the universe and one that touched me and enlightened my path is, be careful of what you read because the Spirit/Word vivifies but the letters/words kill. Find me one who lives as Jesus did, meaning in total Faith in the Spirit within him or her and I will not follow them but walk alongside and share and support each other in the difficult experiences we must go through. The Word of Jesus is not the words of the prophets or the apostles/disciples, that was their interpretation of His Word. His Word lives in the hearts of humans not in a book. If you need to refer to scripture to boost your belief in the written words about God, then your heart is not with Him but in scripture. Jesus said why pray before others to give a show of your beliefs, go to your room close the door in secret and pray the Father who hears you within. It gives me joy to see that organized religion is slowly being dissipated, because when the exterior image of God is dissolved my siblings will finally go within their own heart and find the real Jesus without a preconceived image, the image of the Beast as portrayed by religion believers with their theoretical false doctrines asking for money to support their empires.The Beast is the God that humans created in their image, the Image of the Beast. Go within and ask the Father if this is True not those who would lose their power and money if they told you the Truth. May you find the path within and discover the Real Jesus that you may be filled with His Love, Divine Love. Divine Love Framy Hi Siblings,
I see that some of us are starting to understand who Jesus is and what He came here to say and do.
Jesus didn’t say to reject but to help those who are confused and were put into this world in a different belief/religion. He said to ask in His name but He didn’t say that if you don’t ask in His name your doomed. He loves and gives to all equally good or bad, aware or ignorant, forgive for they know not what they do.
Jesus wasn’t kidding, this is the creator Son of God talking to us, bringing/inseminating our little planet with the Word of God from our Father in Mind. He said take up your cross and follow me, live as I did with the Father our Father as your guide. He wasn’t saying to all become preachers and followers but to discover personally as He did living in Faith. It’s saddening to see the throngs of young siblings lost and following preachers who don’t live as He did. He didn’t say take up my cross but take up your cross.
Siblings, go within and talk with the Father and still your mind and listen, feel, not to words but to the loving, touching feelings of care and presence of His Spirit that gives strength and Faith in who you are.

Now, how can christians say they love Jesus when they act in war, live for money/success in the world and reject their siblings who don’t believe like they do, even condemn them? They are doing the same thing the Jews did/do to Jesus and His followers. I’m not asking for an answer, because love of thy neighbour is the answer.
You may want to awaken to the real Jesus instead of the interpretations that are made by each and everyone of the false preachers, wolves dressed in lambs clothing. Living the teachings of Jesus is not interpretation of the Bible or any other book, it’s living as he lived His religion(personal relationship with our Father/Creator). Sadly, humans tend to use scripture and interpret for themselves, excluding others who see it differently and create all these divisions even those who say they believe the word of God. The word of God is the Word of Jesus God in the flesh, and what did He say? Love your siblings, humans, brothers and sisters, neighbours, enemies, He didn’t say create different factions of beliefs in the scriptures, heck He didn’t even leave any writings. Did you ever ask yourselves why? Live as He lived in His commandment Love one another as I Loved you. He is the way not the human organizations of theoretic beliefs, living in their intellects forgetting their heart where Jesus dwells.
Did you know that Faith is not belief. Faith is a personal relationship with our Father just as Jesus had/has. Following Jesus is not following doctrines or preachers who talk about Jesus and don’t live according to His Word. There are Truths in all corners of the universe and one that touched me and enlightened my path is, be careful of what you read because the Spirit/Word vivifies but the letters/words kill. Find me one who lives as Jesus did, meaning in total Faith in the Spirit within him or her and I will not follow them but walk alongside and share and support each other in the difficult experiences we must go through.
The Word of Jesus is not the words of the prophets or the apostles/disciples, that was their interpretation of His Word. His Word lives in the hearts of humans not in a book. If you need to refer to scripture to boost your belief in the written words about God, then your heart is not with Him but in scripture. Jesus said why pray before others to give a show of your beliefs, go to your room close the door in secret and pray the Father who hears you within.
It gives me joy to see that organized religion is slowly being dissipated, because when the exterior image of God is dissolved my siblings will finally go within their own heart and find the real Jesus without a preconceived image, the image of the Beast as portrayed by religion believers with their theoretical false doctrines asking for money to support their empires.The Beast is the God that humans created in their image, the Image of the Beast. Go within and ask the Father if this is True not those who would lose their power and money if they told you the Truth.
May you find the path within and discover the Real Jesus that you may be filled with His Love, Divine Love.

Divine Love
Framy

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