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	<title>Comments on: iMonk 101: Is Mental Illness Demonic?</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-520521</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-520521</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m confused as to the tie in of your reply to what I said J.  I openly admit that there are obviously physiological causes to most cases of mental illness.  I in no way deny the use of science.  But I also indicated that I have encountered experiences that lead me to conclude that, at least in some cases, it would appear that there is a demonic element to what is occurring.  I&#039;m puzzled why you see it as an either or situation - I certainly do not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused as to the tie in of your reply to what I said J.  I openly admit that there are obviously physiological causes to most cases of mental illness.  I in no way deny the use of science.  But I also indicated that I have encountered experiences that lead me to conclude that, at least in some cases, it would appear that there is a demonic element to what is occurring.  I&#8217;m puzzled why you see it as an either or situation &#8211; I certainly do not.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-520385</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-520385</guid>
		<description>Jude is quoting from the book of Enoch. In Enoch the Angels that fell are the ones who fathered the Nephilim (Genesis, chapter 6).
Those Angels were bound, and the Nephilim destroyed. But the spirits of the Nephilim were cursed to remain on the earth. This is the origin of demons, which are not fallen angels but the spirits of those giants from the antediluvian world.
The book of Enoch was well known (as well as the origin of demons) in Jesus day. In fact much of the book of Enoch is about  the &quot;Son of Man&quot;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jude is quoting from the book of Enoch. In Enoch the Angels that fell are the ones who fathered the Nephilim (Genesis, chapter 6).<br />
Those Angels were bound, and the Nephilim destroyed. But the spirits of the Nephilim were cursed to remain on the earth. This is the origin of demons, which are not fallen angels but the spirits of those giants from the antediluvian world.<br />
The book of Enoch was well known (as well as the origin of demons) in Jesus day. In fact much of the book of Enoch is about  the &#8220;Son of Man&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519958</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519958</guid>
		<description>We all stand in awe of your Brightness, J.

Try becoming a little less full of yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all stand in awe of your Brightness, J.</p>
<p>Try becoming a little less full of yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519957</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519957</guid>
		<description>Hey, J, climb down off that pedestal and stop admiring your Brightness in the mirror.  All I read into that is that somebody had a &quot;Weird Crap&quot; experience; you&#039;re reading just as much into it as Ben, just in the opposite direction.

Lots of people have had &quot;Weird Crap&quot; experiences.  I&#039;ve had them twice, and Congressman Bobby Jindal got into trouble with everybody mentioning one (more spectacular) one he had.  Weirdness happens.  Deal with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, J, climb down off that pedestal and stop admiring your Brightness in the mirror.  All I read into that is that somebody had a &#8220;Weird Crap&#8221; experience; you&#8217;re reading just as much into it as Ben, just in the opposite direction.</p>
<p>Lots of people have had &#8220;Weird Crap&#8221; experiences.  I&#8217;ve had them twice, and Congressman Bobby Jindal got into trouble with everybody mentioning one (more spectacular) one he had.  Weirdness happens.  Deal with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519956</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519956</guid>
		<description>Scott, you&#039;re getting very close to the &quot;You Can&#039;t Prove It&#039;s Not True So That Makes It True!&quot; sort of negative proof you get all the time with paranormal groupies and Young Earth Creationists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, you&#8217;re getting very close to the &#8220;You Can&#8217;t Prove It&#8217;s Not True So That Makes It True!&#8221; sort of negative proof you get all the time with paranormal groupies and Young Earth Creationists.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519955</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519955</guid>
		<description>Phil:  That &quot;just south of us&quot; missionary story sounds a lot like the Christian Urban Legends that you hear floating around these days.  Not saying that it is, just there&#039;s enough resemblance that I&#039;d like to see a provenance of some sort that could be checked out by rumor-control techniques.  The &quot;distant missionary&quot; setting for such spectacular stories also resembles the reason &quot;Space Aliens Have Elvis&#039;s Baby&quot; tabloid stories are also set in distant lands -- makes it very difficult to check out.  And the story contains an obvious Moral Message -- DEMONS and MAGICK are Real, in a sort of &quot;negative proof&quot; of the teller&#039;s Faith.  (Especially considering the veiled debunking of &quot;advancements in science and medical thought&quot; in your final paragraph, sounding very similar to Ken Ham&#039;s tactics.)  All these elements make me a bit suspicious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil:  That &#8220;just south of us&#8221; missionary story sounds a lot like the Christian Urban Legends that you hear floating around these days.  Not saying that it is, just there&#8217;s enough resemblance that I&#8217;d like to see a provenance of some sort that could be checked out by rumor-control techniques.  The &#8220;distant missionary&#8221; setting for such spectacular stories also resembles the reason &#8220;Space Aliens Have Elvis&#8217;s Baby&#8221; tabloid stories are also set in distant lands &#8212; makes it very difficult to check out.  And the story contains an obvious Moral Message &#8212; DEMONS and MAGICK are Real, in a sort of &#8220;negative proof&#8221; of the teller&#8217;s Faith.  (Especially considering the veiled debunking of &#8220;advancements in science and medical thought&#8221; in your final paragraph, sounding very similar to Ken Ham&#8217;s tactics.)  All these elements make me a bit suspicious.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519954</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519954</guid>
		<description>To inject (Badly) some badly needed levity into Schizophenia and MPD, I suggest &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Ps5-CicEE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this little momento from Dr Demento&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To inject (Badly) some badly needed levity into Schizophenia and MPD, I suggest <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Ps5-CicEE" rel="nofollow">this little momento from Dr Demento</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519953</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519953</guid>
		<description>Let me get this straight.  

Messed-up Vets were returning from Iraq &amp; Afghanistan, and for years everybody dropped the ball on them?  Shrinks, VA, Chaplains, everybody?  

That paper sounds like what they got was the Universal Advice from that &quot;Counseling with a Purpose&quot; Christian radio show of the Seventies:  No matter what the problem, &quot;PrayTheSInner&#039;sPrayerAndAcceptJesusChristAsYourPersonalLORDand Savior (TM)&quot;.  

(And during the Reagan years, Christian (TM) media routinely praised how so many of the armed forces were becoming Evangelical Christian, how We Were Taking Back The Military -- looks like the results of that Culture War campaign including taking back the dark side of American Evangelicalism as well, the dark side so often written about by IMonk, Totem to Temple, Christian Monist, and all the others wandering the Post-Evangelical Wilderness.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me get this straight.  </p>
<p>Messed-up Vets were returning from Iraq &amp; Afghanistan, and for years everybody dropped the ball on them?  Shrinks, VA, Chaplains, everybody?  </p>
<p>That paper sounds like what they got was the Universal Advice from that &#8220;Counseling with a Purpose&#8221; Christian radio show of the Seventies:  No matter what the problem, &#8220;PrayTheSInner&#8217;sPrayerAndAcceptJesusChristAsYourPersonalLORDand Savior (TM)&#8221;.  </p>
<p>(And during the Reagan years, Christian (TM) media routinely praised how so many of the armed forces were becoming Evangelical Christian, how We Were Taking Back The Military &#8212; looks like the results of that Culture War campaign including taking back the dark side of American Evangelicalism as well, the dark side so often written about by IMonk, Totem to Temple, Christian Monist, and all the others wandering the Post-Evangelical Wilderness.)</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519914</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519914</guid>
		<description>Oh and I forgot to add a very good friend&#039;s expression, &quot;The greatest trick Roman Polanski and William Petter Blatty ever pulled was convincing us the devil DID exist.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and I forgot to add a very good friend&#8217;s expression, &#8220;The greatest trick Roman Polanski and William Petter Blatty ever pulled was convincing us the devil DID exist.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-is-mental-illness-demonic/comment-page-1#comment-519913</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5064#comment-519913</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your willingness and humility to say &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot;, however this is worth highlighting:

*We actually do not have that much scientific understanding of causation or cure. Sure we know that mentally ill peopleâ€™s brains donâ€™t look the same as others, but there is so much we do not know.*

Alright, here&#039;s the thing: In *every* case--not many, or most or nearly all but *every* case--in which people have attributed something on this Earth to the work of demons or faeries or magic or angry storm gods and it has later been investigated, it has ALWAYS turned out to be something scientifically explicable. Who was it who said: &quot;There&#039;s never been a case where, having investigated, scientists returned from their labs to say, &#039;Well gosh, we poked around inside and wouldn&#039;t you know it, it was leprechauns after all&#039;&quot; ?

There&#039;s a yawning, gaping, howling, multi-mile chasm between the statements:

1.) &quot;Scientists are not yet sure of what causes this.&quot;

2.) &quot;Demons are likely to be the cause of this.&quot;

If the two ideas were just different or even if the second of the two were merely mistaken in it&#039;s own right, then it would just be something to shrug and chuckle at. But history indicates that believing in the second tends to very frequently lead to the enforcement of the first. That is, people decide something is work of demons (or, say, vaccines), then stop listening to (or funding) scientists who come forward with a more reasonable explanation and/or remedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your willingness and humility to say &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;, however this is worth highlighting:</p>
<p>*We actually do not have that much scientific understanding of causation or cure. Sure we know that mentally ill peopleâ€™s brains donâ€™t look the same as others, but there is so much we do not know.*</p>
<p>Alright, here&#8217;s the thing: In *every* case&#8211;not many, or most or nearly all but *every* case&#8211;in which people have attributed something on this Earth to the work of demons or faeries or magic or angry storm gods and it has later been investigated, it has ALWAYS turned out to be something scientifically explicable. Who was it who said: &#8220;There&#8217;s never been a case where, having investigated, scientists returned from their labs to say, &#8216;Well gosh, we poked around inside and wouldn&#8217;t you know it, it was leprechauns after all&#8217;&#8221; ?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a yawning, gaping, howling, multi-mile chasm between the statements:</p>
<p>1.) &#8220;Scientists are not yet sure of what causes this.&#8221;</p>
<p>2.) &#8220;Demons are likely to be the cause of this.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the two ideas were just different or even if the second of the two were merely mistaken in it&#8217;s own right, then it would just be something to shrug and chuckle at. But history indicates that believing in the second tends to very frequently lead to the enforcement of the first. That is, people decide something is work of demons (or, say, vaccines), then stop listening to (or funding) scientists who come forward with a more reasonable explanation and/or remedy.</p>
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