Comments on: iMonk 101: From 11/07: The Ecclesiastes Attitude

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:34:44 +0000

And Now For Something Completely Different:

Yo Ho Ho! A Papistâ€™s Life For Me?

Anybody thought of turning that into a filk using the Pirates of the Caribbean theme?

(After Ecclesiastices, you need something a little lighter…)

By: Corey

Corey — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:56:43 +0000

I’ve always been drawn to Ecclesiastes as I have continued to age as a Christ follower. It’s one book that continues to speak to me and help me make my feeble attempts at understanding God and this life. In seminary, I took a course on Ecclesiastes titled “The Skeptic in Scripture” taught by Dr. Brent Strawn. It was such a blessing to me to go through that book start to finish, deeply examining it and questioning it, just as it questions what we think of God.

By: fashionkath

fashionkath — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:41:41 +0000

Michael: I loved this post. Makes me realize (even though intellectuly I know) that I am not in control. Also, Ed, I liked your response. I too hear a lot of prayers for healing, and if one person happens to get healed and another does not, the one who does not is left wondering why which can produce guilt and depression.

fashionkath

By: Ed

Ed — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:09:13 +0000

I’m with MDS. My thought is that perhaps we are embarrassed to admit poor understanding, weakness or a perceived lack of faith.

When I accepted the proposition that “God’s gonna do what God’s gonna do” it shattered my beliefs on prayer. I’d been taught to believe that through the right attitude and lifestyle (“The prayers of a righteous man”) and enough effort (“Pray continuously”) that God would answer my prayers (“Ask and you shall receive”).

But you know what? I didn’t get answers to my prayers. Oh, my Christian friends had ready responses:
1. “I know it says ask anything, BUT, you need to ask in line with God’s will.”
2. “Sometimes the answer is No.”
3. “Keep trying, God’s timing is not yours.”

Great, I can have answered prayers provided I know God’s will (no easy task) and am willing to wear Him down prayer-wheel fashion. Makes me ask the the question: If God’s going to do what He’s going to do, why bother? BTW: I was dumb enough to express this point of view with a pastor friend, and was immediately issued a book on prayer to “help” me through this rough period.

I sat at the death beds of both my parents and more recently a very dear friend (and one of the most Godly people I’ve ever known), and God seems to be in the “No” business quite a bit.

Honestly, it makes me question the whole idea of answered prayer as many define it. I cannot stand to hear another miraculous report of sister so-and-so’s answered prayer concerning her gall bladder when I think of all the folks that got their prayers answered with “No”. I think we only perpetuate the idea of God as our earthly doctor (look at your church’s prayer list and see what % of the requests don’t involve physical healing).

Ultimately, I believe prayer is not a miracle-generating incantation tool to manipulate God (or our society). My wife likes to say that prayer should change us, not God. I like that.

By: Justin

Justin — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:08:49 +0000

I first read Ecclesiastes as a teenager at summer camp. I was alone and struggling. Ecclesiastes fit the bill, marvelously. I learned that the grass is not greener, and that more and bigger is not better. It taught me that the things the world will offer as a cure to my unhappiness will fail. I learned that being content and satisfied with the way things are is wise. I learned that education and religion are no better than wine, women, and song in filling the void.

Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. This, and this only, is not meaningless.

In my current struggles, I return again and again to “The Preacher”. His not-so-gentle reminders of what matters in life and what does not gives me that dose of clarity my clouded head needs.

Ecclesiastes is my favorite book in the bible, hands down. Job is a close second. I’ll venture a bold opinion that if you can’t see Jesus foreshadowed in either book, you’re not reading it. Of course, that’s easy for me to say living now instead of then.

By: Mich

Mich — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:01:47 +0000

IM,
This really spoke to me:
“I am guilty of wanting God to make much of me rather than make me into a soul who makes much of him now and forever.”

Peace.

By: willoh

willoh — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:46 +0000

If I read Ecclesiastes when i was struggling, I would opt for the gas pipe, or the bridge. J. Vernon Mcgee has a wonderful take on Ecc. The phrase under the sun, to JVM means what you can see, without God. i reread it that way, vanity of vanities.
I would not want Solomon to be my spiritual adviser.
What Imonk is describing, is what I call life, or have I lowered the bar too far? God knows I am very falable. He has seen me fail over and over, yet He uses me to do his work. It helps me that god has recorded many losers, just like me, stuttering murderers are made spokesmen. People who say “take my wife, please, she’s mt sister” Liars like Jacob. Impulsive people like Peter, legalistic pharisees like Paul. People who denied what was right in front of their face like James.
I am glad I am Christian, it means I do not need to be perfect, He was, and is, and always will be.

By: snarky xian

snarky xian — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:37:08 +0000

mick said: “I hate labels in general but Iâ€™m coming to the place that Jesus and his revelation of Abba must form my view of who God is, who I am and how I am to relate to others, and the world around me.”

I fully agree with this. It was Jesus revealing Abba to me that meant all the difference. The enlightenment of who Abba really is can be life-changing.
Here’s a video that proves the point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1L599zzSM

By: caucazhin

caucazhin — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:26:43 +0000

I think its really pretty simple the fire we are tried in is in some sense Gods soveriegn will and He wants absolutely nothing to come between us and Him.
Including our wives,children,friends,family,careers, education,hobbies,talents,theology and religion.
Abrams offering of Isaac is a perfect example of what God wants from us and exactly what he gave to us.
He with held nothing.
The Kingdom of heaven is to come first and “all these things shall be added unto us” as God sees fit not as we see fit.
We really have no idea whats really good for us but in our prideful fallen state we imagine it to be so.
Our current americana condition is a perfect example of this.
“He will give you the desires of your heart” only if those are really for Him because satan can give you the desires of your heart also.
We should all be carrying the white flag of surrender in our back pockets daily instead of being anxious for tommorow……….

By: MDS

MDS — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:19:36 +0000

It is interesting that so few comments follow posts such as this one when compared to those relating to biblicism, inerrancy, evolution, and such. Posts such as this tread nearer the holy. They run us up against the edges of human knowing and understanding. A silent response might therefore show something of wisdom.

On the other hand, it might be they simply make us embarrassed and uncomfortable. We don’t want to believe there are limits to what is possible in our lives. There are so many Christians who tell us otherwise that confession without victory looks to be a simple failure to have and act with sufficient faith.

Maybe it is, but I think not. I’m convinced these experiences and our confession of them lead toward the very heart of faith. At the center of our weakness, in the place where no strength remains, we become strongest. When our strength is destroyed, it is only Christ who is left standing. And so with Paul we can now say, “In my weakness I am made strong.”

Confession and exultation of weakness can however become a snare, and I would appreciate anyone’s thoughts concerning it. God’s strength living through our weakness is sometimes short-circuited through becoming yet more focused on the self. Because the “weakness” results in one being brought into a greater experience of Christ, they sometimes move toward exalting the weakness itself and not Christ. They may even come to see the specific weakness become defining of who they are so that it becomes even more crippling to them than it was previously.

My question is how might such a trap be avoided? I am interested in this personally as well as on behalf of friends and those I have pastoral concerns for.