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	<title>Comments on: iMonk 101: Do You Trust The Abbreviated Jesus?</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-06-08 &#124; The 'K' is not silent</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-478655</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-06-08 &#124; The 'K' is not silent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-478655</guid>
		<description>[...] Do You Trust The Abbreviated Jesus? &quot;Iâ€™m beginning to get the feeling that when people say Jesus, I canâ€™t trust the abbreviation.&quot; (tags: article theology editorial christology) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do You Trust The Abbreviated Jesus? &quot;Iâ€™m beginning to get the feeling that when people say Jesus, I canâ€™t trust the abbreviation.&quot; (tags: article theology editorial christology) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hershel</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461627</link>
		<dc:creator>Hershel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 22:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Keen insights Ron. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keen insights Ron. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: sue kephart</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461558</link>
		<dc:creator>sue kephart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 19:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461558</guid>
		<description>Christopher,

Becoming Jesus&#039;s disciple isn&#039;t as easy as reading the Scripture seeing what He does and following it. If it was we wouldn&#039;t need imonk discussion. Everyone would be doing it.

St.Paul says I must decrease so He may increase. Sounds like a plan. &quot;What!! Me decrease, my Ego cries out!!! Help I am dying. After all I have taken care of us quite fine up til now and you want to do what?&quot;

God has why of dealing with it. His way with me (others may differ) is me getting myself into some big mess and jumping up and down about how awful (just maybe full of awe-you think) pleading, begging, being mad at God, having a fit. Then a small thought began to emerge in my mind that I really did this to myself. So I surrender to God&#039;s will. He couldn&#039;t do worse, now could He? Little by little I began to see (ah ha) that my Father really does know best. His will is best for me. Now I long for His will, I pray for His will. If I have to go to the cross so be it.

Ten year ago if I read this written by someone else I would have said, &quot;Lucky you. I can&#039;t get there.&quot; And I would have been right. My loving Lord has lead me every step of the way. I am not any different than anyone else. Not any different than you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher,</p>
<p>Becoming Jesus&#8217;s disciple isn&#8217;t as easy as reading the Scripture seeing what He does and following it. If it was we wouldn&#8217;t need imonk discussion. Everyone would be doing it.</p>
<p>St.Paul says I must decrease so He may increase. Sounds like a plan. &#8220;What!! Me decrease, my Ego cries out!!! Help I am dying. After all I have taken care of us quite fine up til now and you want to do what?&#8221;</p>
<p>God has why of dealing with it. His way with me (others may differ) is me getting myself into some big mess and jumping up and down about how awful (just maybe full of awe-you think) pleading, begging, being mad at God, having a fit. Then a small thought began to emerge in my mind that I really did this to myself. So I surrender to God&#8217;s will. He couldn&#8217;t do worse, now could He? Little by little I began to see (ah ha) that my Father really does know best. His will is best for me. Now I long for His will, I pray for His will. If I have to go to the cross so be it.</p>
<p>Ten year ago if I read this written by someone else I would have said, &#8220;Lucky you. I can&#8217;t get there.&#8221; And I would have been right. My loving Lord has lead me every step of the way. I am not any different than anyone else. Not any different than you.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Albee</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461543</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Albee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461543</guid>
		<description>Sue, I should&#039;ve clarified perhaps: I&#039;m not a dispensationalist either, although I adhered to it strongly once. My point was, having been goaded by iMonk into revisiting the Jesus of the Scriptures, I find that much of what I learned concerning Him is wanting. And, faced with the choice of truly becoming His disciple in the manner that a plain reading of the Scriptures describes, I find myself doing the unthinkable: I&#039;m wondering whether I really want to. 

I find that the Jesus caricatured abbreviatedly in our culture is much easier to follow: He demands nothing of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sue, I should&#8217;ve clarified perhaps: I&#8217;m not a dispensationalist either, although I adhered to it strongly once. My point was, having been goaded by iMonk into revisiting the Jesus of the Scriptures, I find that much of what I learned concerning Him is wanting. And, faced with the choice of truly becoming His disciple in the manner that a plain reading of the Scriptures describes, I find myself doing the unthinkable: I&#8217;m wondering whether I really want to. </p>
<p>I find that the Jesus caricatured abbreviatedly in our culture is much easier to follow: He demands nothing of us.</p>
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		<title>By: sue kephart</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461495</link>
		<dc:creator>sue kephart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 17:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461495</guid>
		<description>Christopher I respect your tradition but I am not a dispensationalist. I am an Apostelic believer. Meaning I believe what the Apostles believed and taught not things they could or would never have accepted or believed such as dispensationalism, Mormanisn,Jehowah witness for example.

In my traditional belief God is eternal, meaning outside of time, the Great I am. So to answer your question what I make of it is the only time you and I have is the present. So don&#039;t live in the past or the future but live in the now. God is in the now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher I respect your tradition but I am not a dispensationalist. I am an Apostelic believer. Meaning I believe what the Apostles believed and taught not things they could or would never have accepted or believed such as dispensationalism, Mormanisn,Jehowah witness for example.</p>
<p>In my traditional belief God is eternal, meaning outside of time, the Great I am. So to answer your question what I make of it is the only time you and I have is the present. So don&#8217;t live in the past or the future but live in the now. God is in the now.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Albee</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461478</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Albee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 16:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461478</guid>
		<description>Ed, Sue, speaking strictly for myself no spiritual elitism is intended; simply a recognition that the Jesus of the Scriptures is not the Jesus that is being portrayed in our (American) culture. The Jesus of the Scriptures announces the gospel in clear enough terms (e.g. John 3:16), but His other words are often difficult to accept, much less understand as in Luke 9:57-62:

&#039;Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, &quot;Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.&quot; And Jesus said to him, &quot;Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.&quot;
&#039;Then He said to another, &quot;Follow Me.&quot; But he said, &quot;Lord, let me first go and bury my father.&quot; 
Jesus said to him, &quot;Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.&quot; 
&#039;And another also said, &quot;Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.&quot; 
&#039;But Jesus said to him, &quot;No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.&quot;&#039;

What do we make of this? In some branches of dispensational theology, such pronouncements might be relegated to Old Testament teaching, or &#039;postponed&#039; until the Kingdom is fulfilled at some future day. This is the Jesus that I don&#039;t understand, notwithstanding my continuing faith in Him. In our culture and through much of our theology, we have concocted a Jesus whose teachings and commandments are largely ignored. By ignoring the difficult, contrary, frustrating Jesus who said some really tough things, do we ignore as well His true intent for His followers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, Sue, speaking strictly for myself no spiritual elitism is intended; simply a recognition that the Jesus of the Scriptures is not the Jesus that is being portrayed in our (American) culture. The Jesus of the Scriptures announces the gospel in clear enough terms (e.g. John 3:16), but His other words are often difficult to accept, much less understand as in Luke 9:57-62:</p>
<p>&#8216;Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, &#8220;Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.&#8221; And Jesus said to him, &#8220;Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.&#8221;<br />
&#8216;Then He said to another, &#8220;Follow Me.&#8221; But he said, &#8220;Lord, let me first go and bury my father.&#8221;<br />
Jesus said to him, &#8220;Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.&#8221;<br />
&#8216;And another also said, &#8220;Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.&#8221;<br />
&#8216;But Jesus said to him, &#8220;No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.&#8221;&#8216;</p>
<p>What do we make of this? In some branches of dispensational theology, such pronouncements might be relegated to Old Testament teaching, or &#8216;postponed&#8217; until the Kingdom is fulfilled at some future day. This is the Jesus that I don&#8217;t understand, notwithstanding my continuing faith in Him. In our culture and through much of our theology, we have concocted a Jesus whose teachings and commandments are largely ignored. By ignoring the difficult, contrary, frustrating Jesus who said some really tough things, do we ignore as well His true intent for His followers?</p>
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		<title>By: sue kephart</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461251</link>
		<dc:creator>sue kephart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 13:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461251</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ed. First is has been said Jesus called simple people who had no seminarty training but study the way someone wants (my way not some other denoms way) you will be true disciples have special knowledge (gnosticism). I have no quarrel with John 3:16 but I never hear the verse following (John 3:17) by those who keep clinging to it. Jesus said I came to save the world not to condenm it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ed. First is has been said Jesus called simple people who had no seminarty training but study the way someone wants (my way not some other denoms way) you will be true disciples have special knowledge (gnosticism). I have no quarrel with John 3:16 but I never hear the verse following (John 3:17) by those who keep clinging to it. Jesus said I came to save the world not to condenm it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461211</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461211</guid>
		<description>A lot of this comes across as spiritual elitism to me, with only the true devotees having done the required (and self-defined) amount of study, devotion, prayer, lifestyle perfection, and bible-study to claim the special knowledge.

I used to believe that the simplicity of the gospel message as spoken by Jesus himself in John 3:16 was what set our faith apart from the rigors of the works/legalistic religions of the world.  I guess i was all wrong.

When I contemplate the simple message of Christ, and see recorded in gospels his acceptance, love, sacrifice and forgiveness, I feel drawn to and closer to God.  When I get into the long discussions of all the man made &quot;adder requirements&quot; I get confused, even doubtful.

I believe that God in Christ wants a relationship with all of mankind.  Having said that, I do not believe that the vast majority of the world is capable of jumping over the intellectual hurdles imposed by others to get to him.

It&#039;s too bad that the thief on the cross couldn&#039;t also have risen from the dead so we could have a record of the life of devotion and discipleship he would surely have had to follow to complete his simple faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of this comes across as spiritual elitism to me, with only the true devotees having done the required (and self-defined) amount of study, devotion, prayer, lifestyle perfection, and bible-study to claim the special knowledge.</p>
<p>I used to believe that the simplicity of the gospel message as spoken by Jesus himself in John 3:16 was what set our faith apart from the rigors of the works/legalistic religions of the world.  I guess i was all wrong.</p>
<p>When I contemplate the simple message of Christ, and see recorded in gospels his acceptance, love, sacrifice and forgiveness, I feel drawn to and closer to God.  When I get into the long discussions of all the man made &#8220;adder requirements&#8221; I get confused, even doubtful.</p>
<p>I believe that God in Christ wants a relationship with all of mankind.  Having said that, I do not believe that the vast majority of the world is capable of jumping over the intellectual hurdles imposed by others to get to him.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s too bad that the thief on the cross couldn&#8217;t also have risen from the dead so we could have a record of the life of devotion and discipleship he would surely have had to follow to complete his simple faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461203</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461203</guid>
		<description>O, excuses moi, Bernstein is my name and no longer Tinkerbell. Are you guys so called red letter christians? Have some mercy on the sinners...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O, excuses moi, Bernstein is my name and no longer Tinkerbell. Are you guys so called red letter christians? Have some mercy on the sinners&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tinkerbell</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-do-you-trust-the-abbreviated-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-461201</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinkerbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3205#comment-461201</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussions. Intend to follow it for a while. Monks used to punnish themselves (chastening). They never were good enough.
In your culture christianity has fully merged with party politics. I think that is your biggest church problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussions. Intend to follow it for a while. Monks used to punnish themselves (chastening). They never were good enough.<br />
In your culture christianity has fully merged with party politics. I think that is your biggest church problem.</p>
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