Comments on: iMonk 101: Credible Christianity for the Cultural Atheist http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Steve Scott http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-481704 Steve Scott Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:49:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-481704 Are any of these students involved in the underground church in China? Very curious. Are any of these students involved in the underground church in China? Very curious.

]]> By: Mary http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-476689 Mary Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:40:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-476689 I don't understand why it's acceptable for Christians to impose their beliefs on Christians, but when an agnostic wants to spread a little bit of spirituality, the Christians judge his every word. I recently wrote an article and my research showed me how intolerant Christians can be. I'd love a little first hand insight. http://www.examiner.com/x-12667-Milwaukee-Books-Examiner~y2009m6d6-Decide-for-yourself-on-this-magazinestyle-Bible I don’t understand why it’s acceptable for Christians to impose their beliefs on Christians, but when an agnostic wants to spread a little bit of spirituality, the Christians judge his every word.

I recently wrote an article and my research showed me how intolerant Christians can be. I’d love a little first hand insight.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12667-Milwaukee-Books-Examiner~y2009m6d6-Decide-for-yourself-on-this-magazinestyle-Bible

]]> By: How We Live MATTERS! « Thoughts On The Church & Leadership http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-475082 How We Live MATTERS! « Thoughts On The Church & Leadership Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:06:07 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-475082 [...] theme is again emphasized in another one of iMonk’s posts (Credible Christianity for the cultural atheist).  He has worked with a number of Chinese students who are typical for their country – they [...] [...] theme is again emphasized in another one of iMonk’s posts (Credible Christianity for the cultural atheist).  He has worked with a number of Chinese students who are typical for their country – they [...]

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473586 e2c Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:22:28 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473586 ah, OK! Thanks, iMonk. ah, OK! Thanks, iMonk.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473580 iMonk Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:20:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473580 e2c: Maybe they are at the bottom of the original piece. e2c:

Maybe they are at the bottom of the original piece.

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473577 e2c Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:18:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473577 OK, I'm not sure where my comments disappeared to, but I more or less hit on many of the same things as Laowai did, re. the deep-rooted Confucian and Taoist beliefs in Chines culture - something that even Mao's Cultural Revolution couldn't eradicate. Some of what you're seeing (even in respect to your role as a teacher, iMonk) comes from those sources. But Laowai goes into more detail than I could. Although the Party's official line is atheism, the *cultural climate* is not. I think it's really vital to see your students' responses in that context. OK, I’m not sure where my comments disappeared to, but I more or less hit on many of the same things as Laowai did, re. the deep-rooted Confucian and Taoist beliefs in Chines culture – something that even Mao’s Cultural Revolution couldn’t eradicate.

Some of what you’re seeing (even in respect to your role as a teacher, iMonk) comes from those sources. But Laowai goes into more detail than I could.

Although the Party’s official line is atheism, the *cultural climate* is not. I think it’s really vital to see your students’ responses in that context.

]]> By: Laowai http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473564 Laowai Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:57:34 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473564 I guess I would hesitate to describe these Chinese students as truly "atheist" - at least in any really recognizable sense in the West. They are, in their bones, Confucian - to which the closet analogy we might have in Western history is Platonism. Like the Platonism of the Roman empire, Confucianism is the most noble school of Eastern paganism, and thus it flourishes most brightly when brought into contact with the Christian faith. One of the things I've found most refreshing, if only for sake of contrast, by this mindset is the implicit assumption that virtue is a hallmark of truth. Here in the west we see very little connection between an idea being "good for society" and it being true. For the Chinese, something being good for society is the #1 indicator of its truth. Or we might even say that they see no meaningful distinction between virtue and truth. This, I suspect, is what is going on in them "looking at your life". Another thing I've thought of, that I suspect speaks deeply to the Confucian mind, is (as you also mentioned) redemption. For Confucius, good society is founded on good core asymmetrical relationships: teacher/student; father/son; husband/wife; elder brother/younger brother; mentor/understudy; ruler/subject; etc. When these relationships are functioning well - with loyalty and honor given to the one, and benevolence and protection given to the other - the society as a whole will flourish. But what it doesn't seem to speak to, as far as I can tell, is what to do when these relationships are broken. What happens when the younger brother steals his older brother's birthright, and the older brother sells the younger into slavery? What happens when the wife is unfaithful to the husband who redeemed her? What happens when the disciples find they have betrayed their master? What happens when the son squanders his father's inheritance in a far country in reckless living? What happens when the subjects have rejected their rightful king, and nailed him in shame to his throne? I guess I would hesitate to describe these Chinese students as truly “atheist” – at least in any really recognizable sense in the West. They are, in their bones, Confucian – to which the closet analogy we might have in Western history is Platonism. Like the Platonism of the Roman empire, Confucianism is the most noble school of Eastern paganism, and thus it flourishes most brightly when brought into contact with the Christian faith.

One of the things I’ve found most refreshing, if only for sake of contrast, by this mindset is the implicit assumption that virtue is a hallmark of truth. Here in the west we see very little connection between an idea being “good for society” and it being true. For the Chinese, something being good for society is the #1 indicator of its truth. Or we might even say that they see no meaningful distinction between virtue and truth. This, I suspect, is what is going on in them “looking at your life”.

Another thing I’ve thought of, that I suspect speaks deeply to the Confucian mind, is (as you also mentioned) redemption. For Confucius, good society is founded on good core asymmetrical relationships: teacher/student; father/son; husband/wife; elder brother/younger brother; mentor/understudy; ruler/subject; etc. When these relationships are functioning well – with loyalty and honor given to the one, and benevolence and protection given to the other – the society as a whole will flourish. But what it doesn’t seem to speak to, as far as I can tell, is what to do when these relationships are broken. What happens when the younger brother steals his older brother’s birthright, and the older brother sells the younger into slavery? What happens when the wife is unfaithful to the husband who redeemed her? What happens when the disciples find they have betrayed their master? What happens when the son squanders his father’s inheritance in a far country in reckless living? What happens when the subjects have rejected their rightful king, and nailed him in shame to his throne?

]]> By: Memphis Aggie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473505 Memphis Aggie Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:32:55 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473505 "Credible Christianity" would make a good book title by the way. “Credible Christianity” would make a good book title by the way.

]]> By: T http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473496 T Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:18:55 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473496 Thanks for (re)posting this. These kinds of reports just motivate me more and more to think of and practice Christianity as a way to live--one that both receives and gives God's kind of mercy because we trust Jesus. Thanks for (re)posting this. These kinds of reports just motivate me more and more to think of and practice Christianity as a way to live–one that both receives and gives God’s kind of mercy because we trust Jesus.

]]> By: Memphis Aggie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/imonk-101-credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473459 Memphis Aggie Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:25:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3332#comment-473459 Very applicable Very applicable

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