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	<title>Comments on: IM Recommended Reading: Rachel Evans on BioLogos</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Treading Grain &#187; Post Topic &#187; Saturday Ramblings</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-544543</link>
		<dc:creator>Treading Grain &#187; Post Topic &#187; Saturday Ramblings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-544543</guid>
		<description>[...] There are many places to read about this online, but you can also check out the book Chaplain MikeÂ recently reviewed and recommended. You can get the movieÂ Inherit the Wind. Or you can just try to understand what Bucky is talking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There are many places to read about this online, but you can also check out the book Chaplain MikeÂ recently reviewed and recommended. You can get the movieÂ Inherit the Wind. Or you can just try to understand what Bucky is talking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Saturday Ramblings 7.17.10 &#124; internetmonk.com</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-544491</link>
		<dc:creator>Saturday Ramblings 7.17.10 &#124; internetmonk.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-544491</guid>
		<description>[...] There are many places to read about this online, but you can also check out the book Chaplain Mike recently reviewed and recommended. You can get the movieÂ Inherit the Wind. Or you can just try to understand what Bucky is talking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There are many places to read about this online, but you can also check out the book Chaplain Mike recently reviewed and recommended. You can get the movieÂ Inherit the Wind. Or you can just try to understand what Bucky is talking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541637</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 23:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541637</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm......

Respectfully I disagree with you here Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Respectfully I disagree with you here Mike.</p>
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		<title>By: dumb ox</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541121</link>
		<dc:creator>dumb ox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 03:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541121</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have friends who walked away from their Christian faith right when their gifts and talents could have served it best. They walked away because they thought being a Christian demanded willful ignorance and fear of truth. They walked away because they felt betrayed by their pastors, parents, and professors. They walked away because they believed the lie that they had to choose.  And that makes me angry sometimes.&quot;  - Rachel Evans.

Most of my Christian friends from high school walked away for similar reasons.  They were so passionate.  They witnessed.  They read several times more bible chapters everyday than I.  They prayed.   It&#039;s like being the sole survivor of a plane crash:  it seems unfair that I&#039;m still here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have friends who walked away from their Christian faith right when their gifts and talents could have served it best. They walked away because they thought being a Christian demanded willful ignorance and fear of truth. They walked away because they felt betrayed by their pastors, parents, and professors. They walked away because they believed the lie that they had to choose.  And that makes me angry sometimes.&#8221;  &#8211; Rachel Evans.</p>
<p>Most of my Christian friends from high school walked away for similar reasons.  They were so passionate.  They witnessed.  They read several times more bible chapters everyday than I.  They prayed.   It&#8217;s like being the sole survivor of a plane crash:  it seems unfair that I&#8217;m still here.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaplain Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541119</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaplain Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 02:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541119</guid>
		<description>I read this, Matthew, and to be honest, I&#039;ve been so disappointed in the MacArthurites and their fundamentalist approach to this subject. 100 years from now (if the Lord doesn&#039;t return first) they&#039;ll be compared to the Catholic church in Galileo&#039;s day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this, Matthew, and to be honest, I&#8217;ve been so disappointed in the MacArthurites and their fundamentalist approach to this subject. 100 years from now (if the Lord doesn&#8217;t return first) they&#8217;ll be compared to the Catholic church in Galileo&#8217;s day.</p>
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		<title>By: ahumanoid</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541117</link>
		<dc:creator>ahumanoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 02:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541117</guid>
		<description>&quot;To us, it may look random, cruel, and unguided, but so is human history and God obviously drives history for his purpose.&quot;
 
Good point.  Also, another possibility is that the process of evolution (or at least the cruelness of it) is a result of the fall working retroactively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To us, it may look random, cruel, and unguided, but so is human history and God obviously drives history for his purpose.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point.  Also, another possibility is that the process of evolution (or at least the cruelness of it) is a result of the fall working retroactively.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541105</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541105</guid>
		<description>BioLogos: 

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2010/06/trojan-horse.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BioLogos: </p>
<p><a href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2010/06/trojan-horse.html" rel="nofollow">http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2010/06/trojan-horse.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cipher</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541098</link>
		<dc:creator>Cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541098</guid>
		<description>I actually think almost the opposite.  The evolution of information (in this case, genetic information) must be fairly closely monitored in order to increase.  Random noise causes a decay of information.  That means that God didn&#039;t simply wind up evolution like a clock and let it tick away, but rather drove it by choosing which creature developed which way.  To us, it may look random, cruel, and unguided, but so is human history and God obviously drives history for his purpose.  Rather than a distant God, I see one that has patiently and diligently gone through his billion years old plan every step of the way in preparation for an intelligent, moral creature made in his own image.  God manages everything in the universe, not just us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think almost the opposite.  The evolution of information (in this case, genetic information) must be fairly closely monitored in order to increase.  Random noise causes a decay of information.  That means that God didn&#8217;t simply wind up evolution like a clock and let it tick away, but rather drove it by choosing which creature developed which way.  To us, it may look random, cruel, and unguided, but so is human history and God obviously drives history for his purpose.  Rather than a distant God, I see one that has patiently and diligently gone through his billion years old plan every step of the way in preparation for an intelligent, moral creature made in his own image.  God manages everything in the universe, not just us.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541094</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541094</guid>
		<description>Okay, last I&#039;m going to say on this, shutting my trap now, honest:

Again, courtesy of Michael Flynn (and since I&#039;m &lt;strike&gt; ripping off&lt;/strike&gt; quoting so much of his work, plus he&#039;s a co-religionist &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; of Irish descent to boot, I should get the plug in for his excellent SF-and-religion novel, &quot;Eifelheim&quot; - rush out and buy, folks!):

http://m-francis.livejournal.com/139135.html#cutid1

&quot;5. The End of Evolution
Much of the modern problem of understanding stems from the rejection of final causes.  This was due to fear of Early Moderns that if final causes were recognized, then God would have to be admitted.  That is, establishing finality is hard; but once you do, God pops out like Jack-in-the-Box which startles small children and modern sophisticates.  But this gets it backward.  Aquinas thought that finality in nature was obvious, but reasoning from there to God was very difficult.  After all, Aristotle saw finality in nature too; but never concluded a God from it.  

Hence, the modern sees everything in terms of a certain kind of efficient cause, and the old idea of God is pasteurized into an engineer sitting at a drafting table having a bit of fun with the platypus before getting down to the serious business of puff adders and praying mantises.  God must be some sort of efficient cause, too; right?  

Actually, evolution is very hard to get to using only efficient causality.  Not even Dawkins can avoid teleology in his writings.  (His famous example of deriving a sentence from a series of random letters is not only teleological -- he has the target sentence already in mind; but unDarwinian -- the intermediate sentences do not make sense and so are &quot;unfit&quot; for their niche as information-bearers.  The real trick is to start with an intelligible sentence and, by accumulating random mutations and eliminating the results that become unintelligible, wind up with a different sentence.  Better yet: start with the Don Quixote genome (biblionome?) and watch it mutate into Moby Dick! &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, last I&#8217;m going to say on this, shutting my trap now, honest:</p>
<p>Again, courtesy of Michael Flynn (and since I&#8217;m <strike> ripping off</strike> quoting so much of his work, plus he&#8217;s a co-religionist <i>and</i> of Irish descent to boot, I should get the plug in for his excellent SF-and-religion novel, &#8220;Eifelheim&#8221; &#8211; rush out and buy, folks!):</p>
<p><a href="http://m-francis.livejournal.com/139135.html#cutid1" rel="nofollow">http://m-francis.livejournal.com/139135.html#cutid1</a></p>
<p>&#8220;5. The End of Evolution<br />
Much of the modern problem of understanding stems from the rejection of final causes.  This was due to fear of Early Moderns that if final causes were recognized, then God would have to be admitted.  That is, establishing finality is hard; but once you do, God pops out like Jack-in-the-Box which startles small children and modern sophisticates.  But this gets it backward.  Aquinas thought that finality in nature was obvious, but reasoning from there to God was very difficult.  After all, Aristotle saw finality in nature too; but never concluded a God from it.  </p>
<p>Hence, the modern sees everything in terms of a certain kind of efficient cause, and the old idea of God is pasteurized into an engineer sitting at a drafting table having a bit of fun with the platypus before getting down to the serious business of puff adders and praying mantises.  God must be some sort of efficient cause, too; right?  </p>
<p>Actually, evolution is very hard to get to using only efficient causality.  Not even Dawkins can avoid teleology in his writings.  (His famous example of deriving a sentence from a series of random letters is not only teleological &#8212; he has the target sentence already in mind; but unDarwinian &#8212; the intermediate sentences do not make sense and so are &#8220;unfit&#8221; for their niche as information-bearers.  The real trick is to start with an intelligible sentence and, by accumulating random mutations and eliminating the results that become unintelligible, wind up with a different sentence.  Better yet: start with the Don Quixote genome (biblionome?) and watch it mutate into Moby Dick! &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/im-recommended-reading-rachel-evans-on-biologos/comment-page-1#comment-541091</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=8948#comment-541091</guid>
		<description>Or, y&#039;know, I could just let St. Thomas Aquinas do the heavy lifting for me :-)

Courtesy of Mike Flynn&#039;s blog:

Nature is nothing but the plan of some art, namely a divine one, &lt;i&gt;put into things themselves&lt;/i&gt;, by which those things move towards a concrete end: as if the man who builds up a ship could give to the pieces of wood that they could move by themselves to produce the form of the ship. 
(Commentary on Physics II.8, lecture 14, no. 268)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, y&#8217;know, I could just let St. Thomas Aquinas do the heavy lifting for me <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Courtesy of Mike Flynn&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p>Nature is nothing but the plan of some art, namely a divine one, <i>put into things themselves</i>, by which those things move towards a concrete end: as if the man who builds up a ship could give to the pieces of wood that they could move by themselves to produce the form of the ship.<br />
(Commentary on Physics II.8, lecture 14, no. 268)</p>
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