Comments on: How the Confession of My Sins Kept Me in the Church Part II http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Pat Kyle: A Lutheran Take on Confession « Everyone's Entitled to Joe's Opinion http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524050 Pat Kyle: A Lutheran Take on Confession « Everyone's Entitled to Joe's Opinion Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:06:19 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524050 [...] Today I would like to direct your attention to a couple of posts from blogger Pat Kyle of New Reformation Press which deal with this issue, specifically as it relates to confession of sin.  Kyle is a Lutheran giving the Lutheran take on confession–which, believe it or not, actually makes sense to me.  His posts are entitled “How the Confession of My Sins Kept Me in the Church”.  (Part 1) (Part 2) [...] [...] Today I would like to direct your attention to a couple of posts from blogger Pat Kyle of New Reformation Press which deal with this issue, specifically as it relates to confession of sin.  Kyle is a Lutheran giving the Lutheran take on confession–which, believe it or not, actually makes sense to me.  His posts are entitled “How the Confession of My Sins Kept Me in the Church”.  (Part 1) (Part 2) [...]

]]> By: MAJ Tony http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524044 MAJ Tony Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:38:44 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524044 You are very correct, and I agree that civil discourse probably dictates extreme care with regard to this issue. I won't cast aspersions on anyone's answer on the other "side" of the question. Having said that, I think it would be very beneficial to all parties if we did just that very thing, civilly and with all due charity. However, I'm not sure that this venue is a suitable or proper forum. It would certainly take the iMonk blog down a road it might not want, and perhaps never intended, to go. You are very correct, and I agree that civil discourse probably dictates extreme care with regard to this issue. I won’t cast aspersions on anyone’s answer on the other “side” of the question. Having said that, I think it would be very beneficial to all parties if we did just that very thing, civilly and with all due charity. However, I’m not sure that this venue is a suitable or proper forum. It would certainly take the iMonk blog down a road it might not want, and perhaps never intended, to go.

]]> By: MAJ Tony http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524041 MAJ Tony Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:12:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524041 Not to sound like I'm trying to one-up you, but a few years ago, I went to Chicago on a biz trip, and visted St. John Cantius parish. I noted a sign that said "Confessions will be held up through the "Pater Noster." I was just chatting with the pastor, who happens to be the Vicar General for the Archdiocese of Indy, about my trip to StJC, and mentioned the signs. After Christmas, which takes me away from my parish for a few weeks, I noticed that the confessional line kept going after Mass began. We have two priests, and one would take over the confessional about 15 minutes before the other's Mass. I've seen the line go up thru the Homily. Before my tour of St.JC, confessions stopped about 10-15 minutes before Mass. Our parish, Holy Rosary, which sits right next to Eli Lilly's national HQs, recently renovated, and added a second confessional identical to the first. Not to sound like I’m trying to one-up you, but a few years ago, I went to Chicago on a biz trip, and visted St. John Cantius parish. I noted a sign that said “Confessions will be held up through the “Pater Noster.” I was just chatting with the pastor, who happens to be the Vicar General for the Archdiocese of Indy, about my trip to StJC, and mentioned the signs. After Christmas, which takes me away from my parish for a few weeks, I noticed that the confessional line kept going after Mass began. We have two priests, and one would take over the confessional about 15 minutes before the other’s Mass. I’ve seen the line go up thru the Homily. Before my tour of St.JC, confessions stopped about 10-15 minutes before Mass. Our parish, Holy Rosary, which sits right next to Eli Lilly’s national HQs, recently renovated, and added a second confessional identical to the first.

]]> By: MAJ Tony http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524040 MAJ Tony Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:58:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524040 No, it is not a "human" ability, and what you say about fooling God is 100% correct, but <B>*Catholic belief*</B> it is a power of Christ exercised through his Priests. When a Priest gives absolution, Christ, not Fr. Bob, is giving the absolution. We just hear it from Fr. Bob's mouth. It's why Priests are referred to as <I>alter Christus</I> (literally "another Christ"). Don't be confused or scandalized by that Latin term, as it is not used to imply that the Priest is Christ or a "fake" Christ, but stands in the place of Christ as the implement used by Christ to perform the priestly functions: hear confession, confect the Eucharist, pronounce the Priestly blessings, etc., and be the shepherd of the local flock. Truly, when a Priest does these things, Catholics and Orthodox (if I understand Orthodoxy correctly) believe that Christ is really the actor, the man in the vestments is Christ's implement to do that. No, it is not a “human” ability, and what you say about fooling God is 100% correct, but *Catholic belief* it is a power of Christ exercised through his Priests. When a Priest gives absolution, Christ, not Fr. Bob, is giving the absolution. We just hear it from Fr. Bob’s mouth. It’s why Priests are referred to as alter Christus (literally “another Christ”). Don’t be confused or scandalized by that Latin term, as it is not used to imply that the Priest is Christ or a “fake” Christ, but stands in the place of Christ as the implement used by Christ to perform the priestly functions: hear confession, confect the Eucharist, pronounce the Priestly blessings, etc., and be the shepherd of the local flock. Truly, when a Priest does these things, Catholics and Orthodox (if I understand Orthodoxy correctly) believe that Christ is really the actor, the man in the vestments is Christ’s implement to do that.

]]> By: Margaret Catherine http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524029 Margaret Catherine Wed, 27 Jan 2010 03:59:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524029 Of very faint interest. It doesn't seem that the writer even knew what it meant that the man was only a Eucharistic minister - i.e., not a priest. He wasn't mediating anything, he wasn't absolving anyone's sins. He was praying with an seriously ill man and bringing him Communion. Are we not to even pray that someone be forgiven of sin? Of very faint interest. It doesn’t seem that the writer even knew what it meant that the man was only a Eucharistic minister – i.e., not a priest. He wasn’t mediating anything, he wasn’t absolving anyone’s sins. He was praying with an seriously ill man and bringing him Communion. Are we not to even pray that someone be forgiven of sin?

]]> By: Matthew Johnston http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-524007 Matthew Johnston Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:10:05 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-524007 This may be of interest: http://defendingcontending.com/2010/01/25/the-peddler-of-false-assurance/ This may be of interest:

http://defendingcontending.com/2010/01/25/the-peddler-of-false-assurance/

]]> By: Lutheran Confession « Maude's Tavern http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-523995 Lutheran Confession « Maude's Tavern Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:51:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-523995 [...] Thomas @ 2:51 pm I recently learned that Lutherans, at least some Lutherans, have retained private confession (from Internet Monk posting): This will probably come as a shock to many of our readers, but the [...] [...] Thomas @ 2:51 pm I recently learned that Lutherans, at least some Lutherans, have retained private confession (from Internet Monk posting): This will probably come as a shock to many of our readers, but the [...]

]]> By: Matthew Johnston http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-523973 Matthew Johnston Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:41:34 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-523973 Right.....?........? Right…..?……..?

]]> By: Patrick Kyle http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-523922 Patrick Kyle Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:43:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-523922 Of course we don't 'Atone', 'Justify' or 'Propitiate' anyone's sins. Jesus did that. But He did tie the forgivness He worked on our behalf to the forgiveness of those He sent in certain situations. How does your church handle excommunications? What in fact is excommunication but retaining someone's sins against them and denying them forgiveness until such time as they repent? In Matthew 18 Jesus flat out says that what we bind on earth will be bound in heaven in regard to sin in the church. Let's hear your interpretation of John 20:23. What does Jesus mean when he says that the sins we forgive are forgiven in heaven, and those we retain are retained in heaven? Of course we don’t ‘Atone’, ‘Justify’ or ‘Propitiate’ anyone’s sins. Jesus did that. But He did tie the forgivness He worked on our behalf to the forgiveness of those He sent in certain situations.

How does your church handle excommunications? What in fact is excommunication but retaining someone’s sins against them and denying them forgiveness until such time as they repent? In Matthew 18 Jesus flat out says that what we bind on earth will be bound in heaven in regard to sin in the church.

Let’s hear your interpretation of John 20:23. What does Jesus mean when he says that the sins we forgive are forgiven in heaven, and those we retain are retained in heaven?

]]> By: Lainie Petersen http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/how-the-confession-of-my-sins-kept-me-in-the-church-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-523918 Lainie Petersen Mon, 25 Jan 2010 05:22:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5492#comment-523918 I have found that confession, real confession (not "accountability", though there is nothing wrong with that) is immensely healing. It is also immensely frightening, largely because it doesn't have the nuances of "self-help", but rather requires me to lay my soul bare, as it were, and declare my own sinfulness. In front of someone else. Yikes. But as a friend who is also a priest once warned me against the evils of self-absolution and I have taken this advice to heart. Too easy to miss what I really need forgiveness for, and when I don't seek absolution outside myself, I miss out experiencing the beauty of external forgiveness and the love that extends it. I have found that confession, real confession (not “accountability”, though there is nothing wrong with that) is immensely healing. It is also immensely frightening, largely because it doesn’t have the nuances of “self-help”, but rather requires me to lay my soul bare, as it were, and declare my own sinfulness. In front of someone else.

Yikes.

But as a friend who is also a priest once warned me against the evils of self-absolution and I have taken this advice to heart. Too easy to miss what I really need forgiveness for, and when I don’t seek absolution outside myself, I miss out experiencing the beauty of external forgiveness and the love that extends it.

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