I have no problem with that. In fact I’d rather listen to Luther than any other post apostolic teacher given a choice. Was he perfect, no, but he gave Christ rather than covered him up. And as far as modern teachers go, I’d listen to ANYONE of the WHI guys over you or other “reformed” guys of our time. In fact I would entrust my entire family under them before you and your likes without a second blush. I pursue the merciful God because that’s what I need. I don’t pursue the “baptist” god or the “presbyterian” god or the “reformed” god, or some other “denominational” god. I need the God of the Cross for me and he called me by the Cross of Christ a long long long time before I even encountered you. I profess the Cross is my theology, if that makes me a “crypto-lutheran”, then so be it, I wear it with honor, in fact I boast in it. I do not let the opinions of men sway me, nor the pressures of men, nor do I even care the LEAST, truly, how you feel about it – you didn’t bleed on the Cross for me.

Good day sir,

Larry

>Ok. God Bless.

OK Eric, I’m threatening you with banning if you are this civil again. Watch your step.

Eric said “OK” and “God bless.” That mean’s you get to graciously say the same thing and move on, not stir things back up.

I posted your last post, but I won’t do it again.

Say something about me sympathizing with infant baptizers and I’m banning you.

I specifically raised the issue myself and answered it with 1stJohn 2:19 in my last post, so your statement is not true. Many Baptists have pointed out the same problems with manipulating unregenerate people into being Baptized in order to pad Church stats but that’s a completely different issue than the one I am addressing. The issue is that Lutheran theology says that Baptism “actually does something” the actual thing it does apparently is to impart a saving faith to the individual and they make a big deal how this shows salvation is “All Grace, All God, All the time!”. OK, so then I ask who’s fault is it if they grow up to hate God? The Lutheran position seems to indicate that God is incapable of “completing the good work He started” (Phil 1 in the baptized infants. Any body else see a problem here?

Ok. God Bless.

Mike Horton and the WHI Reformed guys have been greatly influenced by Lutheranism, so their views on the sacraments is not representative of mainstream Reformed doctrine. Horton has been accused on occasion of being a “crypto Lutheran”

Greg,
You speak as though believer’s only Baptism has a spotless record in producing committed Christians who never lapse into unbelief or never darken the door of a church again. If the truth was told I’m sure the ‘retention’ rate of believer’s only Baptism is only marginally better than infant Baptism.

I watched your hour long presentation and to be honest; I found it to be a very surface level, Sunday school type presentation. There was a minimum of scriptural support and a lot of appeal to “we’ve (almost) always done it this way” and “how can 75 percent of Christians be wrong?”, a smattering of OT texts and very few of the promised NT references.

You are the one who seems to have made up your mind and does not want to answer some of the tougher issues that your view naturally raises. That’s fine; but don’t try and turn this around and make it look like you have done something besides run away from answering legitimate questions. Like if Infant Baptism actually imparts saving faith to the infant and they are as a result “raised with Christ” (as your youtube teacher and yourself assert, that Rom 6: refers to infant baptism): how then do so many of these same infants grow up to be God haters? In my view I can easily point to the fact that some people who are Baptized on the basis of a false confession and then fall away never were true believers in the first place. 1John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”

Pretty hard to square that with your position. Anyway; you don’t seem the least bit interested in answering any questions, so I’ll just leave it at that and move on myself.

Greg

I don’t have in mind the more legalistic reformed but those that hold the Gospel in the Sacraments for us given to us (e.g. Michael Horton).

Sometimes it seems so close between the two. Without a doubt I hold to the Gospel in them, its why I’m no longer a baptist or memorial view person, I NEED the merciful God myself and have had more than my share of the devil preaching damnation to my soul in the past. The relief, Gospel, I saw in infant baptism is forever a treasured Gospel, that’s why no argument could take me back, I see Christ there in baptism for me. The Lord’s Supper between the Reformed and Lutheran is difficult for me, I admit it.

Larry KY

PS: You won’t hurt my feelings discussing this issue, truly, the merciful God is what many of us seek, regardless. It’s one of the things I love about Michaels’ web site and discussions (as opposed to some reformed and baptist blogs I’ve been around), I think, and I cannot speak for him, he seeks this way too and doesn’t have the thin skin you find in most defending their “denomination” as opposed to “where is God savingly truly for me”.

Anyway, thanks much in advance!

I have Biblical support and made it easily available to you. During this entire series I have linked for you both articles and a video (that is over an hour long) that addresses the Biblical support for infant Baptism.

As I think you are aware, in the blog culture it is not appropriate to take up a lot of space with writing or quotes. What is appropriate etiquette is to link to larger articles or other resources that address issues in greater depth. This is simply out of respect to the host of the blog and the readers.

If you have made up your mind that you are right and are not open to investigating another view, then endless debating and quoting Scripture is a waste of time (for all of us). If, however, you are open, then feel free to explore these resources.

If you have resources that you want to link or recommend, please post them and, if I have not already read them, I will.

You are obviously an intelligent person and very serious about your faith. I am more than willing for you to put me in touch with materials that you feel will help me better understand what you believe and why you believe it.

On to future posts. Take care.

In Christ,

Eric