Comments on: From the Writer’s Worktable: Check in, but don’t always Buy in

By: Brandon F

Brandon F — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:15:33 +0000

It’s funny that you write this Werther as at this point in time, I’m having similar thoughts running through my head. Funny to me in that my “friends” in the church don’t seem to give a rats *** about what is happening in my life in and outside of church (fellowship seems limited to what church programs and fellowship groups you attend and what you can “do” for the church without any reference to real “koinonia”).

Where as my “friends” outside of church actually do give a rats *** about what’s going on in my life in and outside of church. Do I smell the subtle whiff of hypocrisy here…

And I guess that’s why others wonder why there’s a good chance that I probably will end up leaving my current church congregation for another rather than stay where I have been for the last 15 years…

By: greg r

greg r — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:44:56 +0000

Monk: I’m hoping that your post of 5:07 is fleshed out in your new book. That’s some truth that needs to be heard by many.

Hope your writing and ministry goes forward in power.

Greg R.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:52:46 +0000

A few years ago I think the Lord prompted me to go to this little old church, He said I would learn brotherly love. It was about 10 people total, the pastor was in his 80’s God bless him, and every single sermon you’d wait for the moment,” back in WW2…” My wife would look after his ailing wife while I’d take the kids to church, the organist would argue with pastor right in the midst of the service. This was a weekly routine. I whimpered,griped ,and groaned under the absurd routine I found myself, and then it came to me brotherly love how sweet it is. My skins thicker these days and I know my heart is bigger. Love your enemies, love the weak, love the arrogant, and most of all love one another. You couldn’t keep me away from my brothers and sisters in Christ,how else am I to learn to love?

By: Ran V

Ran V — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:09:42 +0000

Werther…I hear you. The “one of us” thing merely shows such folks to be, at worst, no better than the world and, at best, spiritual children.

But I still believe there’s a level of friendship (that most of us have never experienced) that, in the Lord, is far deeper and more satisfying (if more challenging) than can be found outside of Him.

By: Werther

Werther — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:04:26 +0000

I should add that some liberal churches avoid this, or try to, while other religions (such as Judaism and probably Buddhism) have entirely different membership criteria.

By: Werther

Werther — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:02:53 +0000

A true friend will continue to be your friend, even if you disagree about religion or politics or what have you. (Or kill a man!) But in many churches, an important subtext is that you are not really “one of us” unless you accept _______________ (fill in the blank with whatever applies). Does that mean that church is less than friendship, or even–a counterfeit community?

By: Ran V

Ran V — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:00:29 +0000

Seth…thanks, and I couldn’t agree with you more. As I told a friend once, I don’t want my friends to love primarily me, I want them to love God first…and if they can put up with me, then He’ll handle the rest.

It’s been a long season in the “communal desert”, but my hope is still that He will lead us to others who have outgrown the traditional kool-aid…and are willing to embrace the Kingdom even (and especially) if it doesn’t look like we expect it to.

If waiting on God was easy, we’d need about 100 less Psalms.

Love!

By: Seth

Seth — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:43:02 +0000

Ran V… just wanted to say that I agree with your statement about churches in general and found your example (tavern vs christian business vs church) to be discerning. After growing up in evanglical churches, my wife and I have not been to a church in 6 months. We left the traditional church 3 years ago, and have left 3 house churches since then. Although we parted on good terms with all, it was still sad. I have repeatedly tried to boil the essentials down in my mind. You spoke of community, that is one of the essentials to me. A heartful commitment relationships and to the good of the others in the group. I come to 2 more though. One is to have a core passion for Jesus, and the other is to have a leader/fascilitator who does not assume a top – down power/money structure. I don’t think I can distill my church requirements down more than those 3 things. But honestly, I have not found a church in all of Kansas City with these…

By: Brian

Brian — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:32:46 +0000

agreed

By: The Post-Christian

The Post-Christian — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:22:17 +0000

iMonk, thank you for simply acknowledging that many of us who have left Christianity are still great admirers of Jesus and still draw some spiritual sustenance from the Bible. Few of us who had real a engagement with Christianity chucked it all out the window when we left.