Comments on: “Freedom in Worship” for The Liturgically Challenged (Part 1….Maybe) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 17 May 2008 12:46:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Random Acts of Linkage #54 : Subversive Influence http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-218567 Random Acts of Linkage #54 : Subversive Influence Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:57:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-218567 [...] the iMonk on “Freedom in Worship”… think you know what that term [...] […] the iMonk on “Freedom in Worship”… think you know what that term […]

]]> By: Chris Tomlin - Made to Worship « Kingdom Conversations http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-216581 Chris Tomlin - Made to Worship « Kingdom Conversations Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:28:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-216581 [...] cons. For instance, worship can mean a number of different things to a number of different people. Michael Spencer has recently written a wonderful article on how “freedom in worship” can mean so many [...] […] cons. For instance, worship can mean a number of different things to a number of different people. Michael Spencer has recently written a wonderful article on how “freedom in worship” can mean so many […]

]]> By: Ray Downen http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215551 Ray Downen Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:36:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215551 The first responder well asks for any scriptural teaching that Christian assemblies should be guided by a regulative principle. Our preferences matter. But He who has all authority has not set up laws of worship to regulate how His assemblies are conducted. Since absolutely nothing is required in order to please the Lord, why do so many of us try to MAKE worship laws to regulate the worship experience? The first responder well asks for any scriptural teaching that Christian assemblies should be guided by a regulative principle. Our preferences matter. But He who has all authority has not set up laws of worship to regulate how His assemblies are conducted. Since absolutely nothing is required in order to please the Lord, why do so many of us try to MAKE worship laws to regulate the worship experience?

]]> By: john acuff http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215421 john acuff Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:31:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215421 I felt like a person watching my self from a distance as I read this issue. I grew up in Tennessee in the Church of Christ, then the Belmont Church in Nashville with contemporary christian musice mixed with traditional. Michael Smith often led. An elder in a not branded church with moved into the charismatic. Then for seven years in a AOG where it was loud and fast. Finally the Lord led me back to the same CoC that suggested I wouuld be happier elsewhere. This morning we sang sans instruments the Easter songs. I really missed the more demonstrative worship. I am always reminded of what Jim Rayburn the founder of Young Life said, " there must be ten thousand ways to do church, we've tried three." I think by now, I am 68 that i can be there a while and discern the nature of the worship. If that sweet spirit is there then lets sing chants, Luther, wesley, southern gospel and the newer forms which often seem be simply be chants. Thanks for making me think john acuff country lawyer I felt like a person watching my self from a distance as I read this issue. I grew up in Tennessee in the Church of Christ, then the Belmont Church in Nashville with contemporary christian musice mixed with traditional. Michael Smith often led. An elder in a not branded church with moved into the charismatic. Then for seven years in a AOG where it was loud and fast. Finally the Lord led me back to the same CoC that suggested I wouuld be happier elsewhere. This morning we sang sans instruments the Easter songs.
I really missed the more demonstrative worship.

I am always reminded of what Jim Rayburn the founder of Young Life said, ” there must be ten thousand ways to do church, we’ve tried three.” I think by now, I am 68 that i can be there a while and discern the nature of the worship. If that sweet spirit is there then lets sing chants, Luther, wesley, southern gospel and the newer forms which often seem be simply be chants.

Thanks for making me think
john acuff
country lawyer

]]> By: Brendt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215378 Brendt Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:03:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215378 G F wrote: <blockquote>But let’s face it, pews aren’t found in scripture. ;)</blockquote> Yet <b>another</b> way in which God showed His love for us. :-) G F wrote:

But let’s face it, pews aren’t found in scripture. ;)

Yet another way in which God showed His love for us. :-)

]]> By: The Power of Language in Worship Music « Kingdom Conversations http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215241 The Power of Language in Worship Music « Kingdom Conversations Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:48:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215241 [...] For instance, worship can mean a number of different things to a number of different people.  Michael Spencer has recently written a wonderful article on how “freedom in worship” can mean so many [...] […] For instance, worship can mean a number of different things to a number of different people.  Michael Spencer has recently written a wonderful article on how “freedom in worship” can mean so many […]

]]> By: PamBG http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215237 PamBG Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:17:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215237 It's interesting. My denomination - the Methodist Church of Great Britain - which has a schizophrenic history of worship styles, currently seems to think that we are in decline because we *aren't* pandering to market forces; although I doubt many of us would want everyone doing what they felt like! I also do not understand the idea that the Holy Spirit can't work with worship leaders defining the elements of worship. It's amazing how those who claim to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit seem to think that the Holy Spirit only ever works on the spur of the moment. I've never heard of the regulative principle, but my first reaction is 'Fun with Exodus'! Can I wear an Ephod, please? No, not the ones the Pentecostals wear; a real one! ;-) It’s interesting. My denomination - the Methodist Church of Great Britain - which has a schizophrenic history of worship styles, currently seems to think that we are in decline because we *aren’t* pandering to market forces; although I doubt many of us would want everyone doing what they felt like!

I also do not understand the idea that the Holy Spirit can’t work with worship leaders defining the elements of worship. It’s amazing how those who claim to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit seem to think that the Holy Spirit only ever works on the spur of the moment.

I’ve never heard of the regulative principle, but my first reaction is ‘Fun with Exodus’! Can I wear an Ephod, please? No, not the ones the Pentecostals wear; a real one! ;-)

]]> By: chad http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215176 chad Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:48:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215176 I really enjoy this series of posts...and I hope I can find the time to really read all of them. I work in a traditional Baptist church, and it is pretty much the opposite of freedom in worship. There has never been anything officially stated, but usually only the pastor and the music minister are the ones that participate in the service. I know this is not out of selfish ambition, but instead baptist tradition. Most of my seminary studies are focused on worship, and I really think that you raised many serious questions here. What scares me the most about "the worship wars" is that it is the worship of the church that influences it's doctrine. While now we think it is the opposite, by reading church history, we see that this really is an important case. How long did the early church worship before they had doctrine in place and how did their worship affect the doctrine they came to develop? Larry Hurtado has written alot asking that question. When we take a fuller expression of the church and worship out of the service time, we are slowly weakening the entire enterprise known as the Christian Church. I too agree that these services of singing a few songs, reading a verse, and then hearing a seminary qualified self help speaker really isn't worship. The question I have started to think about is this, What is the difference between a bunch of people worshiping in a room together at the same time and a body of people participating in the same worship at the same time? I really enjoy this series of posts…and I hope I can find the time to really read all of them.

I work in a traditional Baptist church, and it is pretty much the opposite of freedom in worship. There has never been anything officially stated, but usually only the pastor and the music minister are the ones that participate in the service. I know this is not out of selfish ambition, but instead baptist tradition.

Most of my seminary studies are focused on worship, and I really think that you raised many serious questions here. What scares me the most about “the worship wars” is that it is the worship of the church that influences it’s doctrine. While now we think it is the opposite, by reading church history, we see that this really is an important case.

How long did the early church worship before they had doctrine in place and how did their worship affect the doctrine they came to develop? Larry Hurtado has written alot asking that question.

When we take a fuller expression of the church and worship out of the service time, we are slowly weakening the entire enterprise known as the Christian Church.

I too agree that these services of singing a few songs, reading a verse, and then hearing a seminary qualified self help speaker really isn’t worship.

The question I have started to think about is this, What is the difference between a bunch of people worshiping in a room together at the same time and a body of people participating in the same worship at the same time?

]]> By: Michael Spencer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215154 Michael Spencer Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:49:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215154 Adam: Becoming a member of the ECUSA or AMiA would require leaving the ministry and moving several hours away. Tell the brethren to "come over and help us" here in SE Ky. :-) peace, MS Adam:

Becoming a member of the ECUSA or AMiA would require leaving the ministry and moving several hours away. Tell the brethren to “come over and help us” here in SE Ky. :-)

peace,

MS

]]> By: Adam http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215148 Adam Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:55:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/freedom-in-worship-for-the-liturgically-challenged-part-1maybe#comment-215148 You should become an Episcopalian Michael! It always fascinates me the differences between the US and the UK evangelical scence. For what it's worth, you have just described is (at least in my Church of England church) our bread and butter worship, an order of service with confession, creeds, public scripture reading (sometimes 3, a OT, NT and a Gospel reading) with various forms of creative/dramatic presentation and response, at least 20 minute preaching on the text, as well as layperson led intercessions, with contemporary worship songs, opportunities for open prayer, hand raising and what not. I think you'd love it! All the debates about "freedom of worship" seemed to have died out about 20 years ago here! By the way, this is my first comment on this blog, although am a long time reader. Adam UK You should become an Episcopalian Michael! It always fascinates me the differences between the US and the UK evangelical scence. For what it’s worth, you have just described is (at least in my Church of England church) our bread and butter worship, an order of service with confession, creeds, public scripture reading (sometimes 3, a OT, NT and a Gospel reading) with various forms of creative/dramatic presentation and response, at least 20 minute preaching on the text, as well as layperson led intercessions, with contemporary worship songs, opportunities for open prayer, hand raising and what not. I think you’d love it!

All the debates about “freedom of worship” seemed to have died out about 20 years ago here!

By the way, this is my first comment on this blog, although am a long time reader.

Adam
UK

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