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	<title>Comments on: For Smart Guys Like Me</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: D.A. Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-117684</link>
		<dc:creator>D.A. Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-117684</guid>
		<description>I guess that our wisdom is the very reason God is having trouble with us; ever since Eve gave the apple to Adam. Yet it was God&#039;s intention, wasn&#039;t it?

I like how you use texts from the Bible, it is a nice Book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that our wisdom is the very reason God is having trouble with us; ever since Eve gave the apple to Adam. Yet it was God&#8217;s intention, wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>I like how you use texts from the Bible, it is a nice Book.</p>
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		<title>By: Heteroclite</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-117009</link>
		<dc:creator>Heteroclite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 00:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-117009</guid>
		<description>Nicholas, excellent brass tacks illustration of (1) the importance of *The Manual* as the Ultimate Referent, (2) the priesthood of believers, (3) the Berean principle, and (4) the existence of objective truth and standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicholas, excellent brass tacks illustration of (1) the importance of *The Manual* as the Ultimate Referent, (2) the priesthood of believers, (3) the Berean principle, and (4) the existence of objective truth and standards.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116903</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116903</guid>
		<description>Evangelical Christianity has lost the music and poetry of the Christian experience because it has lost the basis for it’s faith.  In it’s place, we manufacture artificial experiences via the multi media approach.  We tend to move from the beauty of Christ, to the beauty of a “dolled up” Christ, to the beauty of the doll.  

With the exception of God, Who IS Truth, ultimate truth exists apart from the one who professes or practices it (Though one can profess to know, understand and practice the truth, one can never be that Truth in themselves).  Neither can that knowledge be measured on the basis of one’s academic or “popularity” credentials.

In contemporary society, largely because of bureaucratization, a paper trail is deemed necessary in order for one to be considered credible in any given subject.  

A few weeks ago, our oldest son stated;  “Though 80 percent of the adults in my church have gone to Bible School or college, most of them are doctrinally illiterate”.  It seemed to him that though they had the paper credentials, they did not have the actual knowledge.  As someone else stated regarding graduates from a local Christian college, “They have a lot of knowledge, but very little conviction”.   Why?

A few weeks ago, our youngest son took his 2003 Jetta TDi to the Porsche VW dealer because of the lack of power.  He had already personally diagnosed the problem to be the Turbo boost modulator (whatever it is technically called).  The mechanic came to the same conclusion, replaced the part and sent him on his way.  The car functioned worse than ever, and on his way home the engine code light came on.  He returned to the dealer.  After replacing a number of sensors, our son finally asked the mechanic how he had adjusted the modulator.  The mechanic replied, “...by the previous one that failed”.  Our son suggested that the mechanic go to the instruction manual and get the actual adjusting data.  The mechanic did not do so, and again sent him on his way.  The car functioned as badly as before.  When our son came home, he went to the net, got the data, removed the modulator, adjusted it to spec (It had been adjusted to full boost continually), assembled it, and the car again functions like new.  In this case the one who was “officially” qualified did not know what he was doing, and the one who had no “official” qualifications, did.

That is one of the dilemmas in the church.  We depend on Christian “professionals” to think, work and even believe for us.  Yet Paul states;  Co 14:29;  “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other(s) (Plural in the original Greek) judge”.   Every last one of us is called to hear, understand, believe, live and judge, where Truth is concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evangelical Christianity has lost the music and poetry of the Christian experience because it has lost the basis for it’s faith.  In it’s place, we manufacture artificial experiences via the multi media approach.  We tend to move from the beauty of Christ, to the beauty of a “dolled up” Christ, to the beauty of the doll.  </p>
<p>With the exception of God, Who IS Truth, ultimate truth exists apart from the one who professes or practices it (Though one can profess to know, understand and practice the truth, one can never be that Truth in themselves).  Neither can that knowledge be measured on the basis of one’s academic or “popularity” credentials.</p>
<p>In contemporary society, largely because of bureaucratization, a paper trail is deemed necessary in order for one to be considered credible in any given subject.  </p>
<p>A few weeks ago, our oldest son stated;  “Though 80 percent of the adults in my church have gone to Bible School or college, most of them are doctrinally illiterate”.  It seemed to him that though they had the paper credentials, they did not have the actual knowledge.  As someone else stated regarding graduates from a local Christian college, “They have a lot of knowledge, but very little conviction”.   Why?</p>
<p>A few weeks ago, our youngest son took his 2003 Jetta TDi to the Porsche VW dealer because of the lack of power.  He had already personally diagnosed the problem to be the Turbo boost modulator (whatever it is technically called).  The mechanic came to the same conclusion, replaced the part and sent him on his way.  The car functioned worse than ever, and on his way home the engine code light came on.  He returned to the dealer.  After replacing a number of sensors, our son finally asked the mechanic how he had adjusted the modulator.  The mechanic replied, “&#8230;by the previous one that failed”.  Our son suggested that the mechanic go to the instruction manual and get the actual adjusting data.  The mechanic did not do so, and again sent him on his way.  The car functioned as badly as before.  When our son came home, he went to the net, got the data, removed the modulator, adjusted it to spec (It had been adjusted to full boost continually), assembled it, and the car again functions like new.  In this case the one who was “officially” qualified did not know what he was doing, and the one who had no “official” qualifications, did.</p>
<p>That is one of the dilemmas in the church.  We depend on Christian “professionals” to think, work and even believe for us.  Yet Paul states;  Co 14:29;  “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other(s) (Plural in the original Greek) judge”.   Every last one of us is called to hear, understand, believe, live and judge, where Truth is concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Publius II</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116799</link>
		<dc:creator>Publius II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116799</guid>
		<description>Hey Michael.  I linked this piece.  Thanks for that.
http://faithwithareason.blogspot.com/2007/07/internet-monk-for-smart-guys-like-me.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Michael.  I linked this piece.  Thanks for that.<br />
<a href="http://faithwithareason.blogspot.com/2007/07/internet-monk-for-smart-guys-like-me.html" rel="nofollow">http://faithwithareason.blogspot.com/2007/07/internet-monk-for-smart-guys-like-me.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: caplight</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116750</link>
		<dc:creator>caplight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116750</guid>
		<description>Michael
I appreciate your site not so much because you are &quot;smart&quot; but because you are wise. You have an ability to connect dots of information and more significantly, observation and make a picture out of it that others like me can&#039;t seem to see. Often my response to your writing is ,&quot;Hmmmmmmm, yea, OK, that&#039;s what I&#039;ve been trying to get my finger on.&quot;

The thing I find odd is that it seems to me that many people who are attracted to your site seem to be very intellectual and mental in their approach to their faith. That&#039;s why I often lose interest in the chains of comments that often devolve into doctrinal fine tuning sessions. I think you even hang out blog-wise with those who seem of that bent just looking at your links.

But that is not my take on you or at least that is not what I take from your writing. It&#039;s the heart that you display on your journey.

Evangelicalism has lost the music and the poetry of the Christian experience. You seem to be able to sense it in a new and fresh way, sometimes from rediscovering the old and sometimes from re envisioning the new. I can&#039;t do that but I enjoy reading it when you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael<br />
I appreciate your site not so much because you are &#8220;smart&#8221; but because you are wise. You have an ability to connect dots of information and more significantly, observation and make a picture out of it that others like me can&#8217;t seem to see. Often my response to your writing is ,&#8221;Hmmmmmmm, yea, OK, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve been trying to get my finger on.&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing I find odd is that it seems to me that many people who are attracted to your site seem to be very intellectual and mental in their approach to their faith. That&#8217;s why I often lose interest in the chains of comments that often devolve into doctrinal fine tuning sessions. I think you even hang out blog-wise with those who seem of that bent just looking at your links.</p>
<p>But that is not my take on you or at least that is not what I take from your writing. It&#8217;s the heart that you display on your journey.</p>
<p>Evangelicalism has lost the music and the poetry of the Christian experience. You seem to be able to sense it in a new and fresh way, sometimes from rediscovering the old and sometimes from re envisioning the new. I can&#8217;t do that but I enjoy reading it when you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116745</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116745</guid>
		<description>A hearty &quot;Amen&quot; on the substance of the post. Human knowledge should never be confused with Biblical wisdom.

But there is an opposite problem of sorts as well, which is the tendency of some evangelical churches toward anti-intellectualism -- to be always suspicious of the profession of &quot;intelligent&quot; people (however defined), and not to welcome them into their communities.

I remember as an undergraduate philosophy major (years ago now), I was speaking to someone from a church I had just begun visiting. She looked at me and said, &quot;People like you usually don&#039;t get saved.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A hearty &#8220;Amen&#8221; on the substance of the post. Human knowledge should never be confused with Biblical wisdom.</p>
<p>But there is an opposite problem of sorts as well, which is the tendency of some evangelical churches toward anti-intellectualism &#8212; to be always suspicious of the profession of &#8220;intelligent&#8221; people (however defined), and not to welcome them into their communities.</p>
<p>I remember as an undergraduate philosophy major (years ago now), I was speaking to someone from a church I had just begun visiting. She looked at me and said, &#8220;People like you usually don&#8217;t get saved.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116738</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116738</guid>
		<description>Great stuff!! I was thinking: If I&#039;m really smart, it&#039;s a God-given talent. I should claim to be blessed for that talent He gave me. On the other hand, if I go around boasting that I&#039;m smart or beat my chest after people throw accolades my way, I have begun the process of believing that He had nothing to do with it and that it&#039;s all about me; and thus play God. It&#039;s the human condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff!! I was thinking: If I&#8217;m really smart, it&#8217;s a God-given talent. I should claim to be blessed for that talent He gave me. On the other hand, if I go around boasting that I&#8217;m smart or beat my chest after people throw accolades my way, I have begun the process of believing that He had nothing to do with it and that it&#8217;s all about me; and thus play God. It&#8217;s the human condition.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Sheffler</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116702</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sheffler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116702</guid>
		<description>Great post, I have recently been thinking about this subject a lot.  Since I am a student in philosophy I am forced to confront the issues involved with the worlds &#039;wisdom&#039;.  This line of thought led me to wanting to doubt all reason and thought altogether.  However, I learned that reason is only trustworthy when it is submitted to the Lord.

I wrote about this recently on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.exicarus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ex-icarus&lt;/a&gt; in the post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.exicarus.com/2007/07/07/confessions-of-a-philosophy-major/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Confessions of a Philosophy Major&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, I have recently been thinking about this subject a lot.  Since I am a student in philosophy I am forced to confront the issues involved with the worlds &#8216;wisdom&#8217;.  This line of thought led me to wanting to doubt all reason and thought altogether.  However, I learned that reason is only trustworthy when it is submitted to the Lord.</p>
<p>I wrote about this recently on <a href="http://www.exicarus.com" rel="nofollow">ex-icarus</a> in the post <a href="http://www.exicarus.com/2007/07/07/confessions-of-a-philosophy-major/" rel="nofollow">Confessions of a Philosophy Major</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Becca</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116645</link>
		<dc:creator>Becca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116645</guid>
		<description>&quot;So if any of us are actually intelligent, we can demonstrate it by humbling our minds before whatever truth we venerate- the Trinitarian God in my case- and admit that whatever light we have is only a glimmer of the light we can’t see. If the true light shines within us, it won’t register on any of the academic registers. It will be the reflection of the deepest, simplest, most beautiful truths that come to us as a gift, and its greatest evidence will be love, not intelligence.&quot;

Ah what sweet gentleness is in these words.  Paul writes elsewhere that we can be all up with the insider secrets of angels, but it is pointless if we don&#039;t *do* love.  Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So if any of us are actually intelligent, we can demonstrate it by humbling our minds before whatever truth we venerate- the Trinitarian God in my case- and admit that whatever light we have is only a glimmer of the light we can’t see. If the true light shines within us, it won’t register on any of the academic registers. It will be the reflection of the deepest, simplest, most beautiful truths that come to us as a gift, and its greatest evidence will be love, not intelligence.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah what sweet gentleness is in these words.  Paul writes elsewhere that we can be all up with the insider secrets of angels, but it is pointless if we don&#8217;t *do* love.  Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me/comment-page-1#comment-116635</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-smart-guys-like-me#comment-116635</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jesus DOES assure us, “You shall *KNOW* the truth…” Maybe not ALL the Truth in the universe ...&quot; Apples and oranges, then, Heteroclite. If my little circle of truth doesn&#039;t overlap your little circle of truth then I have absolutely no right whatsoever criticizing your truth. An expert on apples should not tell an expert on oranges how to grow her oranges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jesus DOES assure us, “You shall *KNOW* the truth…” Maybe not ALL the Truth in the universe &#8230;&#8221; Apples and oranges, then, Heteroclite. If my little circle of truth doesn&#8217;t overlap your little circle of truth then I have absolutely no right whatsoever criticizing your truth. An expert on apples should not tell an expert on oranges how to grow her oranges.</p>
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