Comments on: Five Post-evangelical Answers for Today’s Evangelical Crisis

By: Missionary Mirage | lingamish

Missionary Mirage | lingamish — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:57:56 +0000

[...] mirages. But why keep it in when I can let it all hang out in a first-rate rant?!? First, iMonk tells us to look to churches in the developing world to re-evangelize the developed world and instruct our churches in “as many ways as [...]

By: Jim

Jim — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:17:22 +0000

Michael,
Having been schooled in a small Bible school in the Kentucky Mountains, holding to the doctrines of grace, pastoring some of those churches rooted in tradions etc., worked in a Eastern Kentucky “Christian” boarding school for some years,over 15 years as a missionary to a country that borders the United States…has given me some insight to the content in your post. Could write lengthy but will not.
Forget spending time trying to reverse the trend in the established churches…not denying the power of God but stating this from experience.
Much of today’s “Christian music” is on the same plane as “Christian(insert your own words). Am very much in favor of proper music in a church service and proper time allowed…three to four songs.
The example given in the N.T. of planting churches and installing leaders and practicing church discipline, music was not the center of worship and Church discipline was preventive and corrective..to prevent error and to correct error. alway with the thought to restore an erroring one to truth. Always to bring glory to God.
Pastor/teachers have the responsibility of educating the congregation in truth.
The thought here on the field, instilled in the young preachers by their seminary professors, is “get all you can from the Americans”…material things and money. N

By: Mule Chewing Briars

Mule Chewing Briars — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:45:51 +0000

To say that Evangelicalism has a soundtrack problem is an understatement. “Shine Jesus Shine” almost single-handedly forced me into the Orthodox Church.

By: Vance Clark

Vance Clark — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:20:58 +0000

Michael,
I couldn’t agree with you more.
I write this with the noise of helicopters overhead. (I’m in Iraq) I have traveled much in the evangelical world and I have thought long and hard about many of the points that you bring up Michael and many that are related. My conclusion is this: Our worship “Service” has become an idol. The whole concept of a space and time that we must accomplish whatever it is that we think needs to be done for people to be fulfilled needs to be torn down in the sense that we need to quit being driven by the program, what was the servant has now become the master.
A majority of current megachurches and church growth churches are movie theater experiences. People come, get “filled” and then leave. They rarely, if ever focus on the body of christ and limit ministry to the few on the stage. People in the pew are starving for genuine ministry and yet there are gobs of spiritual gifts lying (or sitting on the pews (or folding chairs) gathering dust! Oh sure, everything is hip and modern and people are friendly but there is a distance because true ministry (along with vulnerability and true christianity has been bred out of them) Hospitality as a gift is almost non-existent.
When we cease to open our hearts and homes to folks, our Christianity all but dead. I grew up in a fundamental/evangelical church and they certainly had more than their share of things that hold them back (and still do which is why I left) BUT If I went anywhere else in the country in the course of my work, you could almost count on being invited to someones house to eat, fellowship etc. I was almost always ministered to by someone who opted to take up the basin and towel, Today, you get a smile and a handshake or a nod is more like it and that’s it. We have redefined ministry to those performers on the stage. The word might be good, the music excellent, but the fact remains, there remain spiritually immature people and unused spritual gifts rotting away sitting around while people conduct a “service” I am not against a service per se but today we are DRIVEN by it instead of true ministry by people who aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty.
Recent example: My wife and I recently moved to NW Florida recently and were shopping for a church (No one told me it was SBC central! LOL) We visited alot of vibrant churches. The preaching was really good. The music the same and the people SEEMED friendly and happy. One even claimed to be a “Spiritual Hospital” but, not one person ever really engaged us. The service has risen to it’s prominence and people are giving homage without ever really understanding that their true ministry and what they should be investing is dying.
Sorry for the length,and the repetition of what many have said. I don’t have time to edit. my time is up here at the internet cafe.

God Bless,

Vance Clark, USAF

By: Sam

Sam — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:15:39 +0000

Dear iMonk,

May I add one more? (I realize you didn’t mean the list to be comprehensive.)

How about this: “Critically reexamining our at times truncated understanding of the meaning of the good news of the kingdom of God, of salvation and of Jesus the Messiah by going back to the whole Bible?” Perhaps that way, we evangelicals will come to see (one more time) just how good the good news really is, and begin to live out the evangelion!

Always enjoying your blog,

- Sam

By: Ron Shaw

Ron Shaw — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:12:03 +0000

Michael: Your post hit me in the same spot that has been on my mind of late, particularly your 4th point about music. I hope you'll take a look at my thoughts along along a similar line.

By: Bob Sacamento

Bob Sacamento — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:00:07 +0000

Just an observation on the music. Most of the responses here disagreeing with Michael’s take on church music have sung the praises (no pun intended — well, yeah, I guess it is. sorry.) of the role of music in worship in general. And that’s OK as far as it goes, because music has indeed been part of the worship of God since David first learned to play his harp (and, obviously, long before that too). But the point is not how great music is in principle, but what is happening with music in the church in practice today. I’m on Michael’s side in this regard. Regardless of how great it is in principle, what we have in practice today is just too much.

By analogy, I can’t think of too many activities more worthy than evangelism. But let’s say the typical church service was nothing but that — no hymns, no choruses, no prayers, no announcements, no baptisms, not even an offering — just the preacher up there evangelizing for an hour plus, week after week after week. The fact that evangelism is a wonderful and worthy thing to do would not distract us from the horrible imbalance in such “worship.”

By: chrisstiles

chrisstiles — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:17:47 +0000

Hi oscar -

The Noll lecture is at this link here, it ranges more widely than the particular subjects I mentioned

http://www.roanoke.edu/crs/audio/Noll-3-24-06.mp3

–
chris

By: Clay

Clay — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:49:06 +0000

Just a few passing last thoughts on music (Answer #4), with a few more perspectives as I continue to ponder an interesting topic.

Music is a good thing! Music is a part of our nature as created beings. It is a part of God’s nature as Creator. It is one of the good and perfect things of James 1:17. It is the language by which we will praise God both on earth and in heaven. It is part of the language of our worship as a body (Colossians 3:16). A book of the Bible is devoted to “songs” of worship. Music is consistently, thoughout Scripture, a core expression of the corporate worship of the community of faith, both OT and NT. The stars sang at creation, the heavenly host sang at Christ’s birth, and the church in heaven will sing praise to the exalted Savior. Let’s be careful not to minimalize what God has emphasized.

CCM music is not all bad. Like it or not, much of CCM music is the “new song” of the body of Christ in this new generation. Millions of people (me, too) worship God daily with songs written by godly, passionate Christians in CCM. Yes, many (perhaps even most) of the CCM songs are trite, repetitive, and annoying, but many are deep, spiritual, and uplifting. The best hymns that we still sing as the church from previous generations emerged from a vast sea of vastly inferior music and trite verse. The same will happen with CCM. The best will be sung for generations. Much of today’s CCM-driven “Praise & Worship” music is undoubtedly better suited for personal listening and for youth conference worship-rallies than it is for weekly church worship. What the church needs is not just a reined-in CCM, but more mature, biblically-informed, and spiritually discerning worship leaders, and fewer professional musicians seeking church jobs and music careers.

Good worship needs good music. Worship that does not thoughtfully employ the God-given language and power of music is anemic. Worship is more than just music, but it is less than biblical without it, or with it relegated only to sermon warm-up songs. Should music be less emphasized? In today’s culture, I would agree that “musicianship” has become overemphasized. Should music, though, be less important as an element of corporate worship. Absolutely not! It’s not an issue of “art” and “gifts,” but about God’s design for our worship. What needs to happen most is not just budget cuts and staff demotions, but rather a repentance from what has become a self-centered philosophy and paradigm for corporate worship (all-CCM-all-the-time performance and feel-good worship). Then, what’s needed even more is a renewal of a God- and cross-centered philosophy and paradigm for worship, in which music is part of the whole language and script of corporate worship, along with Scripture readings, public prayers, creeds, confession, and the eucharist.

Probably few are reading this post anymore, but I do hope you will explore this topic in a future post, Michael (as you suggested you might). I would like to hear more of your thoughts about worship and music.

By: Bob Sacamento

Bob Sacamento — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:31:45 +0000

Wonderful suggestions, every one. #1 is especially near and dear to my heart. I have been griping about megachurches and the apparent end of mission congregations for years now.

I like #2 especially, also. I have been thinking alot recently about how there are so many people sitting in evangelical pews — especially youngsters — who want so much to grow deeper and higher in the faith but just don’t know how. And they need more than just another book in the bookstores; they need examples and role models and individuals who know them and can speak to their specific situations. Our ministerial talent is wasting itself in a scattshot approach — sending out nuggets of wisdom that fall on deaf ears as often as not, when we should be focusing it on individuals who will thrive spiritually under the attention. Sad thing is, alot of these thirsting folks are in danger of becoming deaf themselves, hearing and reading the same old things over and over again.