You are 100% correct re: my plank. Yes, there is one (at least one)

Consider something, though, my sister… you read my words, and through the discernment of the Holy Spirit, you make a judgment. You respond to my post. Okay.

But you HAVE made a judgment. Correct? Like you, I too make a judgment. NOT a condemnation, mind you. A judgment. The Bible says “judgment begins in the house of the Lord.” It also cautions us that, yes, “by the measure that you judge, you TOO will be judged.”

There is nothing I’ve said (in my posts) to EP that does NOT apply to me. I totally recognize that. I thought I was making that clear. I have received counsel time and again from people in the church, and sometimes people outside the church… and sometimes from people I would have NOT expected. God has used any number of people, situations, etc. to get my attention, because – as you correctly said – I am a stubborn man!

Please try to understand… I am not trying to change anyone’s position/beliefs/morals, etc… I really am not. What I’m trying to do is to CAUTION against someone holding so tightly to their FIXED position.. so tightly that they miss the still, small voice of the Lord who may very well be trying to get them to CONSIDER it from a different perspective.

That’s all.

Having said that, I know that I have idolatry in my life… I know that I have sexual sin in my life… I know that I have pride in my life (which is probably the root of all the others). I know that there are things I hold onto – for fear of letting them go – EVEN THOUGH God may be trying to get me to see them from His perspective.

I can be an in-flexible sonuvagun sometimes, I know that. But aren’t most CHILDREN that way?
Let’s not forget that – whether we’ve been walking with Christ for 4 months or 4 years or 4 decades… some of us are merely “children.”

And according to what I’ve read in the Bible, God wants to grow us up. Even the Apostle Paul (scholar that he was) wrote “No, dear brothers and sisters, I am still not all I should be, but I am focusing all my energies on this one thing: forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead..” (Phil 3:13 New Living Translation)

The greatest compliment I think I’ve ever received was that I’m “teach-able.”

Debra, I thank you for your comments. I really do. You know, you were wrong when you said “Jon… I realize you do not have your (sights) fixated on me…” The truth is… when I started posting on this page, I was (and am still) very, very mindful of everyone who is going to be reading these words.

We are the body of Christ, we believers, are we not. People visit this page and what do they see? The body of Christ with open arms? Or arms folded? A closed door?

I want people to draw closer to Jesus, and I know that that is sometimes a slow process… Being in-flexible does not help the process (although, thanks be to God, He is patient) In my walk with Christ, I have gained some and I have lost some… I encourage you, EP, and whoever else may read this to press on toward the goal of drawing ever more close to Jesus… NO MATTER WHAT IT MAY COST YOU. JUST KNOW – IT WILL COST YOU SOMETHING.

You responded “I do those things you say with PEOPLE or at least try.”

Didn’t you read my posting? I am not talking about PEOPLE. I am not talking about acts of kindness toward PEOPLE. I am not talking about loving your neighbor (although that is a command.)

What I’ve been talking about AT LENGTH is having a heart for GOD. Being mindful of His heart. Wanting to do something nice for Him, to bless Him. He is the object of our devotion, affection, worship, and love. Or at least SHOULD BE.

King David’s heart toward God was “if there is anything in me that offends YOU, oH GOD…”

My question is: is that YOUR heart, EP?

Would you allow God to strip away ANYTHING away from your life (not sin or vice, necessarily), but ANYTHING… for no other reason than for God’s pleasure? Think, please, before you answer that. It is a hard question. It is a question of love and trust.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, and especially in this country, we are so fixated on self, and on what God CAN DO FOR US and how I can have “my best life now” blah blah blah… do we ever consider that perhaps God might request something of us? And what if God speaks to you, as He did Abraham, “I want you to sacrifice the life of your son, Isaac”.. that which is dearest to you? Will you be found obedient? Will I? That is the question I’m asking, EP. And I don’t ask it because I’ve got my act together. Hardly.

I suspect that’s the question that God asks each of us since the Garden of Eden — Adam, where are you? Where is your heart?

There are a number of people who have posted on this site who do not agree with what you say. Yet you hold fast to your belief. Fine.

I have my beliefs as well that I hold fast to. They are not easily shaken.

However… could it just possibly be that (every so often) God may choose to speak into your life (through a friend, through a brother or sister, through a donkey)… and maybe it will challenge or shake up that THING that you believe to be true. My question remains the same… what will your heart be toward God? Even if He asks something of you that you can’t make sense of? Even if He asks something of you that you do NOT WANT TO GIVE UP? What will your heart be toward God then? Is He Lord of your life? Can He ask anything of you?

In confession, these are questions I’ve faced and my answers have often been No, Lord, I want to hold onto this THING a little longer. No, Lord, this THING provides me comfort. No, Lord, I do not trust You with THIS AREA of my life…. or simply… SHOW ME HOW YOU’RE GOING TO WORK THIS OUT FIRST, LORD, AND THEN I’LL TRUST YOU.

To my shame.

i do thpse things you say with people or at leadt try. it still comes across that you think being gay is a sin and i simply disagree. Thanks for explaining further. You say some good things.

Blessings,
EP

I tried to make a point that – in the relationship you have with your Dad or your loved one or your spouse or whomever – if you suspect that they MIGHT disapprove of something, then you logically will refrain from doing it (or at the very least, not do it in their presence).

If my friend (who I care about) tells me they do not like second-hand smoke, then I will not smoke in their presence. Simple?

Now… if I am not CERTAIN whether something will offend or disturb or agitate my friend, my loved one, I would probably consult with them FIRST.

And please understand something. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you’ve got to be heterosexual to go to Heaven. This is not a question of sexuality at all. That is a small part of who I am. AND WHO I AM IS A MESSED UP SON-OF-A-GUN IN DIRE NEED OF A SAVIOR, same as you, same as everybody else on the planet.

I never once claimed to have the FINAL SAY or CERTAINTY when it comes to issues of theology and doctrine… I did not set myself up as an expert of biblical interpretation, so there is no need to try to knock me off my high horse (I’ll be the first to tell ya – I don’t have a horse!)

My question to you, though, is more of a “heart issue…” Many people use the phrase “I love God and try my best to follow Him…” Okay. That seems rational. Kind of. But the question is… how exactly do you love someone you can’t see, smell, touch, feel, or hear audibly? How do you love God?

It’s a simple question.

What do you have to offer God? Really? What do you have to offer God that He hasn’t already given you? I can think of only ONE THING. Obedience. Now that’s where things get messy, right? Obedience to what? Some people interpret the Bible one way, some interpret another way. So where there is a question, where there is uncertainty… MY SUGGESTION (SIMPLISTIC, THOUGH IT MAY BE) was to err on the side of CAUTION.

Try and stay with my logic just a little bit longer: imagine you’re in love with someone. You are head over heels for this person. What is the evidence of that love? How will it be manifested in your actions? For myself, I can say.. I am going to try to do EVERYTHING RIGHT, say ALL THE RIGHT THINGS, I am going to put my BEST FOOT FORWARD, I am going to work at getting her attention. Do you see where I’m going with this?

If I’m a smoker and I just decide to light up whilst in the company of this woman I supposedly am head-over-heels for… and don’t even take notice of her maybe coughing or holding her nose… it doesn’t make sense, does it?

I am not saying that I am certain about your salvation AT ALL (that is not my place to say). I cannot see your heart. But what I am saying is this… if I say I love the Lord (who I cannot see), and someone tells me that something in my life is a hindrance or is a stumbling block or is just flat-out wrong… I may disagree with them. I may be able to quote chapter and verse, but if I profess to be a lover of Jesus, wouldn’t it also be logical that I might – JUST IN CASE THEY’RE RIGHT AND I’M WRONG – do everything I could to take into account the heart of the One who I profess to love? Or will I hold onto the thing out of some sense of… I don’t know – entitlement? I don’t know.

David writes in Psalm 139 “Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; And see if [there is any] wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.”

Another translation puts it this way: “Point out anything in me that offends You…”

This humility of heart is what I think would do us well to learn from, all of us who call ourselves lovers and followers of Jesus Christ. Point out anything in me, Lord, that offends You…

And in closing, may I say, that if anything I’ve said has come across as self-righteous or judgmental… I just pray that anyone reading this would know that everything I’ve said applies first and foremost to ME (because I’m writing out of the conviction of my own heart). I am far from perfect. There are sins I (ahem) “struggle” with daily… I care less about being right, than I care about being a help to someone reading this.

You totally get what i’m saying! Thanks! i cherish our friendship as well! THANK YOU!

EP

THANK YOU so very much for your kind and encouraging words! They mean A LOT!

You are welcome at either of my blogs anytime. (Existential Punk and Queermergent)

Warnest Regards,
EP

i love G-D and do my very best to follow G-D. Do i fail? Yes, more often i get it wrong than i get it right. BUT, it’s the reality of a RELATIONSHIP, any RELATIONSHIP! Will i encourage people? Yes. Will i anger and let people down? Yes! i am human and i am trying to be authentic. i do not see the Bible as a rule book.”

Yes, friend. As you and I have talked about before I think when we talk in this context we get typical response as you have seen here. For us, at times (I’m tempted to say always), it is easier for us to look through this lens, because it has been our life and our natural progression of faith, spirituality and fluidity of our journey. I think for others that have to have that “absolute” thinking when we speak from these views they don’t get it.

I also know that because you and I both have lead a journey that came from freeing ourselves from chains that were deathly for us many will not and don’t want to understand. I love how you demonstrate that so clearly with what is said above. Neither you nor I (and others) view the bible as a rule book that gives our do’s and don’t's of the day. Nor do we see ourselves holding the absolute answer on a subject.

I don’t want to hold the answers any more. I did that for a long time in my life. I took the power out of God’s hands and placed it squarely on myself. I have learned since coming out and submitting myself under God’s power that there is one thing I can rely upon. It was the fact and ultimate beauty of the story of the Gospel. That is the only thing I can rely upon. It is what Jesus came here to do. He came to act out and demonstrate his love and his father’s love for us. He didn’t come down to clarify rules and regulations. He didn’t come to say, “ok, these are the ones I’m gonna let into heaven….” He simply showed us the beauty of his love. To come and fellowship within that love. I think that is where there are hang ups in this conversation. I know what you mean, because you and I have walked it. Where some think we are bending God to our will, we see how we have bent ourselves to God’s will. Until any one can stop thrusting their “absolutes” on others and let go of the feeling and need to be right will conversation begin. I love how you are about to talk about speaking from our weakness. I think this discussion proves the need for it. In this conversation we go for the strength we THINK we have and just cover the weakness. I have come to the mind that I would rather speak from my weakness and my story than to pull out my Greek/Hebrew Study Bible and start trumping verses.

I think, and I could be wrong, this is what EP is saying in general terms. And it is for sure what I would say. As a christian and a lesbian I wonder why I should engage someone who questions if I look into the bible and if I even care what my Abba has to say to me. That isn’t discussion. It isn’t allowing oneself to sit in the grey and to believe they could have something wrong in their perception. If I weren’t a christian I would be wondering how I should know someone was with words that say, “well, your going to hell and I know because…” or “they don’t even own a bible…” Take a moment and look at the intention. Are you speaking the beautiful art work of the gospel or are you the clanging cymbols?

EP, I have come to cherish our new friendship and am grateful for your words here!

Blessings!

It can be very tough in this arena as gay women who love and follow Christ. This is important dialogue that is happening here (with an exception or two). I have enjoyed reading your views on this subject very much, and only wanted to say I love and appreciate you.
Best to you and yours.

Debra