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	<title>Comments on: Fear of Women and Their Cute, Pink Books</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Jro</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-123128</link>
		<dc:creator>Jro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-123128</guid>
		<description>I think tring to get to the bottom of an issue or at least discussing it at all is good for all of us.  Remember slavery, racism, and women rights were issues of the not so distant past.  I would enought women to understand men more because they need to be aggressive sometimes, and women need to let out emotions.  Maybe we both are guilty of not knowing enough about each other and what bothers us that feelings are hurt when they shouldn&#039;t be, and men get the wrong impression perhaps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think tring to get to the bottom of an issue or at least discussing it at all is good for all of us.  Remember slavery, racism, and women rights were issues of the not so distant past.  I would enought women to understand men more because they need to be aggressive sometimes, and women need to let out emotions.  Maybe we both are guilty of not knowing enough about each other and what bothers us that feelings are hurt when they shouldn&#8217;t be, and men get the wrong impression perhaps.</p>
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		<title>By: Indi</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-88557</link>
		<dc:creator>Indi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-88557</guid>
		<description>I just found BHT a week or so ago and my immediate thought was, &quot;Yeah but I bet they aren&#039;t gonna discuss gender in the church.&quot; 

Damn was I wrong! 

May I submit that a difference of &#039;logic&#039; might, in reality, be a difference of priorities? That women are concerned about the inner workings of a heartfelt relationship with Jesus Christ, while men in Western culture are more comfortable depating obscure academic points which have little to nothing to do with walking with Christ?

(Ouch, I know.)

That is to say, in our culture it&#039;s not so easy to be spiritual David. (You cry and write poetry and dance around in your underwear lately? No? I didn&#039;t think so... me either, actually, except the crying part.)

Also, we tend to define masculinity as whatever femininity *isn&#039;t*. 

All of that being said, as a woman interested in obscure intellectual questions, I&#039;ve had a short lifetime of not fitting in at church. All the cigar smoking men look at me funny, and all the scrapbooking women look at me funny, and all I can do is sigh and think, &quot;Jesus you might look at me funny, too, but at least I know you love me.&quot;

I hope to see some good discussion. I&#039;ll be lurking. (Promise, not a threat. ^^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found BHT a week or so ago and my immediate thought was, &#8220;Yeah but I bet they aren&#8217;t gonna discuss gender in the church.&#8221; </p>
<p>Damn was I wrong! </p>
<p>May I submit that a difference of &#8216;logic&#8217; might, in reality, be a difference of priorities? That women are concerned about the inner workings of a heartfelt relationship with Jesus Christ, while men in Western culture are more comfortable depating obscure academic points which have little to nothing to do with walking with Christ?</p>
<p>(Ouch, I know.)</p>
<p>That is to say, in our culture it&#8217;s not so easy to be spiritual David. (You cry and write poetry and dance around in your underwear lately? No? I didn&#8217;t think so&#8230; me either, actually, except the crying part.)</p>
<p>Also, we tend to define masculinity as whatever femininity *isn&#8217;t*. </p>
<p>All of that being said, as a woman interested in obscure intellectual questions, I&#8217;ve had a short lifetime of not fitting in at church. All the cigar smoking men look at me funny, and all the scrapbooking women look at me funny, and all I can do is sigh and think, &#8220;Jesus you might look at me funny, too, but at least I know you love me.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope to see some good discussion. I&#8217;ll be lurking. (Promise, not a threat. ^^)</p>
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		<title>By: WriteMariaG</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-66527</link>
		<dc:creator>WriteMariaG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-66527</guid>
		<description>What a great post and discussion--I hope I&#039;m not too late to join the conversation. Last year I self-published my book about our 25 years of multi-ethnic, inner city church planting/pastoring/ in Baltimore. I felt moved to write A Thousand Resurrections because all the other books I&#039;m aware of about multi-ethnic/urban churches and incarnational Christian community development were written by men (Perkins, Rice, Emerson, Ortiz, Lupton, etc.). Great books, BUT women&#039;s voices were absent from the conversation. I was turned down by several Christian publishers because they feared my book wasn&#039;t &quot;marketable&quot; enough.(Did they think only women interested in urban ministry would read it?) I&#039;ve frequently faced the assumption that because the author is female, the book is only for women. Because of this, when I asked a local blogger (the insighful Jollyblogger) to review my book, I felt compelled to assure him that it wasn&#039;t chick lit--meaning that it was neither light, fluffy, or directed solely to women. (He took that remark with good humor.)   

I&#039;m reminded of a scene in the movie &quot;Capote&quot; where at a party filled with NY literary types, a man approaches Harper Lee. &quot;I hear you have a book coming out.&quot; She nods. &quot;A children&#039;s book, right?&quot; he says, &quot;something about a bird?&quot; 
Lee wrote To Kill a Mockingbird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great post and discussion&#8211;I hope I&#8217;m not too late to join the conversation. Last year I self-published my book about our 25 years of multi-ethnic, inner city church planting/pastoring/ in Baltimore. I felt moved to write A Thousand Resurrections because all the other books I&#8217;m aware of about multi-ethnic/urban churches and incarnational Christian community development were written by men (Perkins, Rice, Emerson, Ortiz, Lupton, etc.). Great books, BUT women&#8217;s voices were absent from the conversation. I was turned down by several Christian publishers because they feared my book wasn&#8217;t &#8220;marketable&#8221; enough.(Did they think only women interested in urban ministry would read it?) I&#8217;ve frequently faced the assumption that because the author is female, the book is only for women. Because of this, when I asked a local blogger (the insighful Jollyblogger) to review my book, I felt compelled to assure him that it wasn&#8217;t chick lit&#8211;meaning that it was neither light, fluffy, or directed solely to women. (He took that remark with good humor.)   </p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded of a scene in the movie &#8220;Capote&#8221; where at a party filled with NY literary types, a man approaches Harper Lee. &#8220;I hear you have a book coming out.&#8221; She nods. &#8220;A children&#8217;s book, right?&#8221; he says, &#8220;something about a bird?&#8221;<br />
Lee wrote To Kill a Mockingbird.</p>
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		<title>By: Histrion (Jay H)</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-63441</link>
		<dc:creator>Histrion (Jay H)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-63441</guid>
		<description>CAndiron writes: &lt;i&gt;I want certainty &amp; assurance &lt;/i&gt;.

In this world, you shall have affliction. ;-)

Or, to quote a different writer:

Inigo Montoya: Who are you? 
Westley: No one of consequence. 
Inigo Montoya: I must know... 
Westley: Get used to disappointment. 
Inigo Montoya: &#039;kay...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CAndiron writes: <i>I want certainty &amp; assurance </i>.</p>
<p>In this world, you shall have affliction. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Or, to quote a different writer:</p>
<p>Inigo Montoya: Who are you?<br />
Westley: No one of consequence.<br />
Inigo Montoya: I must know&#8230;<br />
Westley: Get used to disappointment.<br />
Inigo Montoya: &#8216;kay&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: CAndiron</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-61738</link>
		<dc:creator>CAndiron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-61738</guid>
		<description>I want hardcore theology. If c.t. wrote a book, I&#039;d probably buy it (1/2 jn).

Re emotions, I read &#039;yo ho ho, a papist&#039;s life for me?&#039; and it was a bit like watching an action movie. I was squirming with anxiety for the first 3/4s and breathed an enormous sigh of relief at the end. I&#039;d much rather you had given assurance at the outset that you had analyzed it all and rejected it. Instead of saying &#039;I&#039;m tired of Protestantism. I&#039;m tired of every man with his Bible being a little Pope&#039;, you could say &#039;Although Protestantism has its share of inherent dangers, such as solo scriptura...&#039;. I think that&#039;s what makes some of the TRs uncomfortable with you as well. I&#039;m not criticizing, btw, just documenting my irrational fear of emotion. I want certainty &amp; assurance (about other people&#039;s mental states).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want hardcore theology. If c.t. wrote a book, I&#8217;d probably buy it (1/2 jn).</p>
<p>Re emotions, I read &#8216;yo ho ho, a papist&#8217;s life for me?&#8217; and it was a bit like watching an action movie. I was squirming with anxiety for the first 3/4s and breathed an enormous sigh of relief at the end. I&#8217;d much rather you had given assurance at the outset that you had analyzed it all and rejected it. Instead of saying &#8216;I&#8217;m tired of Protestantism. I&#8217;m tired of every man with his Bible being a little Pope&#8217;, you could say &#8216;Although Protestantism has its share of inherent dangers, such as solo scriptura&#8230;&#8217;. I think that&#8217;s what makes some of the TRs uncomfortable with you as well. I&#8217;m not criticizing, btw, just documenting my irrational fear of emotion. I want certainty &amp; assurance (about other people&#8217;s mental states).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-52821</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-52821</guid>
		<description>Jay H:

Slam dunk on that last sentence. Bingo. Presto. 10 points and the prize rabbit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay H:</p>
<p>Slam dunk on that last sentence. Bingo. Presto. 10 points and the prize rabbit.</p>
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		<title>By: Histrion (Jay H)</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-52816</link>
		<dc:creator>Histrion (Jay H)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-52816</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;iMonk&lt;/b&gt; wrote, in the BHT: &lt;i&gt;But on the whole, evangelical men want to talk about dispensational arguments, not how they feel about loneliness.&lt;/i&gt;

I think this is pretty close to it. In fact, I think this is a reflection of a greater cultural issue, something outside Christianity of any stripe: in general, while women are just as capable of thinking logically as men are, men&#039;s logic has an aggression factor to it.

Again, in case it went unnoticed the first time I said it, I&#039;m speaking in general: I think when a man gets into a verbal logical argument, he&#039;s more likely than a woman to be on the attack -- &quot;Argument X shall defeat Improper Thought Y.&quot;

And while I&#039;m not intimately familiar with the TR blogosphere -- this is one of the few religious blogs I read at all -- the impression I get is that that sort of logical aggression is not only welcome there, it&#039;s considered necessary. Calvinism in general strikes me as an emotion-negative sort of reading of the faith: &quot;Feel uncomfortable with the idea of a God who doesn&#039;t love everyone? Wuss.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>iMonk</b> wrote, in the BHT: <i>But on the whole, evangelical men want to talk about dispensational arguments, not how they feel about loneliness.</i></p>
<p>I think this is pretty close to it. In fact, I think this is a reflection of a greater cultural issue, something outside Christianity of any stripe: in general, while women are just as capable of thinking logically as men are, men&#8217;s logic has an aggression factor to it.</p>
<p>Again, in case it went unnoticed the first time I said it, I&#8217;m speaking in general: I think when a man gets into a verbal logical argument, he&#8217;s more likely than a woman to be on the attack &#8212; &#8220;Argument X shall defeat Improper Thought Y.&#8221;</p>
<p>And while I&#8217;m not intimately familiar with the TR blogosphere &#8212; this is one of the few religious blogs I read at all &#8212; the impression I get is that that sort of logical aggression is not only welcome there, it&#8217;s considered necessary. Calvinism in general strikes me as an emotion-negative sort of reading of the faith: &#8220;Feel uncomfortable with the idea of a God who doesn&#8217;t love everyone? Wuss.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: justpeachy607</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-52726</link>
		<dc:creator>justpeachy607</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-52726</guid>
		<description>Excellent post!  May the tribe of Anne Lamott increase!

IMO, a contributing factor of the cute-pink-book tea party is the Mars-and-Venus bandwagon so much of Evangelicism has piled aboard.  Of course men and women have their differences, but Eldrege, Eggerich, and others have exaggerated them far beyond what evidence supports.  

We are first individuals--with a unique mix of male and female traits--before we ever begin to fit into their fairy-tale stereotypes of femininity and masculinity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post!  May the tribe of Anne Lamott increase!</p>
<p>IMO, a contributing factor of the cute-pink-book tea party is the Mars-and-Venus bandwagon so much of Evangelicism has piled aboard.  Of course men and women have their differences, but Eldrege, Eggerich, and others have exaggerated them far beyond what evidence supports.  </p>
<p>We are first individuals&#8211;with a unique mix of male and female traits&#8211;before we ever begin to fit into their fairy-tale stereotypes of femininity and masculinity.</p>
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		<title>By: rmawhorter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-52713</link>
		<dc:creator>rmawhorter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-52713</guid>
		<description>Thanks for pointing this out. I&#039;ve thought of using a gender neutral psedonym when making blog posts on my favorite blogs so that I might be taken more seriously. I definitly have seen that there are different interests between men and woman but both should be complimentary. There are serious woman and serious men just as there are flaky woman and there are flaky men. We might pick different serious topics to discuss or maybe we won&#039;t. We also don&#039;t all cry at the first sign of conflict. Some of us thrive on it. 

Thanks again for a great post. Good food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing this out. I&#8217;ve thought of using a gender neutral psedonym when making blog posts on my favorite blogs so that I might be taken more seriously. I definitly have seen that there are different interests between men and woman but both should be complimentary. There are serious woman and serious men just as there are flaky woman and there are flaky men. We might pick different serious topics to discuss or maybe we won&#8217;t. We also don&#8217;t all cry at the first sign of conflict. Some of us thrive on it. </p>
<p>Thanks again for a great post. Good food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: CBrunette</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books/comment-page-1#comment-52665</link>
		<dc:creator>CBrunette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/fear-of-women-and-their-cute-pink-books#comment-52665</guid>
		<description>Aha, I thought of a non-pink book Christian author I like (sorry, not at home so I can&#039;t browse my book shelf). Mother Basilea Schlink. She founded the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary, a Lutheran monastic group in Germany after WWII. Her writings are for all audiences and are as weighty (dare I say it) as other contemporaries of her time. The &quot;ladies&quot;, as our family call them, carry on a vibrant ministry of publishing M. Basilea&#039;s works and of intense prayer and praise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha, I thought of a non-pink book Christian author I like (sorry, not at home so I can&#8217;t browse my book shelf). Mother Basilea Schlink. She founded the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary, a Lutheran monastic group in Germany after WWII. Her writings are for all audiences and are as weighty (dare I say it) as other contemporaries of her time. The &#8220;ladies&#8221;, as our family call them, carry on a vibrant ministry of publishing M. Basilea&#8217;s works and of intense prayer and praise.</p>
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