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	<title>Comments on: American Idolatry: What&#8217;s Entertainment?</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: blarg</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7162</link>
		<dc:creator>blarg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7162</guid>
		<description>Michael, I&#039;m a little confused on something. I absolutly agree with you that entertainment can become an idol. But are you saying that all entertainment is idolatry (I don&#039;t think you are but I&#039;m not sure). For example, if I decide to spend and hour reading a secular novel or watching a TV show I am choosing to be entertained, but would that qualify as idolatry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I&#8217;m a little confused on something. I absolutly agree with you that entertainment can become an idol. But are you saying that all entertainment is idolatry (I don&#8217;t think you are but I&#8217;m not sure). For example, if I decide to spend and hour reading a secular novel or watching a TV show I am choosing to be entertained, but would that qualify as idolatry?</p>
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		<title>By: coderforchrist</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7134</link>
		<dc:creator>coderforchrist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7134</guid>
		<description>This post reminded me of something I&#039;ve been thinking about lately. You had a post not too long ago about &quot;yelling preachers.&quot; Well, I&#039;ve got one of those. He will get excited and yell, hit the pulpit, dance around sometimes, lots of dramatic stuff.

Now, our church is rather large. According to my pastor, and others at the church, the reason for this is that he &quot;preaches the truth&quot; and is &quot;not afraid to offend people.&quot; He &quot;says it as it is&quot; and so on.

To be fair, I do not doubt his sincerity, either in what he preaches or how. Of course, I disagree with him on increasing more doctrines, but I believe that he is acting in sincerity as much as any man can.

However, I have another theory: so many people come to hear him preach because he is entertaining. I think it&#039;s sort of the same philosophy as listening to Rush Limbaugh or Neal Boortz or some other talking head. The people who agree with them listen because it&#039;s always fun to be reminded of how superior one&#039;s view is. In addition, for some people, just the passionate delivery is entertaining.

Not that I think God has nothing to do with my church. Granted, it &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; seem like fewer young people (like myself) are sticking around, which has the older folk confused...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post reminded me of something I&#8217;ve been thinking about lately. You had a post not too long ago about &#8220;yelling preachers.&#8221; Well, I&#8217;ve got one of those. He will get excited and yell, hit the pulpit, dance around sometimes, lots of dramatic stuff.</p>
<p>Now, our church is rather large. According to my pastor, and others at the church, the reason for this is that he &#8220;preaches the truth&#8221; and is &#8220;not afraid to offend people.&#8221; He &#8220;says it as it is&#8221; and so on.</p>
<p>To be fair, I do not doubt his sincerity, either in what he preaches or how. Of course, I disagree with him on increasing more doctrines, but I believe that he is acting in sincerity as much as any man can.</p>
<p>However, I have another theory: so many people come to hear him preach because he is entertaining. I think it&#8217;s sort of the same philosophy as listening to Rush Limbaugh or Neal Boortz or some other talking head. The people who agree with them listen because it&#8217;s always fun to be reminded of how superior one&#8217;s view is. In addition, for some people, just the passionate delivery is entertaining.</p>
<p>Not that I think God has nothing to do with my church. Granted, it <i>does</i> seem like fewer young people (like myself) are sticking around, which has the older folk confused&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: chrisstiles</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator>chrisstiles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7117</guid>
		<description>In my opinion, (Christian) blogs work best when they are adopt the ideal of &quot;inform and be informed&quot;. I think it is fair to say that in the UK we still don&#039;t have quite the same sort of &#039;Discernment blogging&#039; that is being described above - and on the occasions where I have ended up following some thread of argument or another I&#039;ve often had the uneasy sensation that it&#039;s basically the online equivalent of rubbernecking.  I&#039;d also be uneasy with churches where all debate was carried out blog to blog. OTOH  - to go from there to a position that states that all blogs are anathema is something I wouldn&#039;t agree with, I have often been informed - and I&#039;m sure the same is true of lots of Christians who find blogs useful as a pointer to other resources.

In this as in other issues I think we are called to live in tension. In tension between an enjoyment of the good things in life that doesn&#039;t end in hedonism, and a grace steeped urgency that doesn&#039;t end in asceticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, (Christian) blogs work best when they are adopt the ideal of &#8220;inform and be informed&#8221;. I think it is fair to say that in the UK we still don&#8217;t have quite the same sort of &#8216;Discernment blogging&#8217; that is being described above &#8211; and on the occasions where I have ended up following some thread of argument or another I&#8217;ve often had the uneasy sensation that it&#8217;s basically the online equivalent of rubbernecking.  I&#8217;d also be uneasy with churches where all debate was carried out blog to blog. OTOH  &#8211; to go from there to a position that states that all blogs are anathema is something I wouldn&#8217;t agree with, I have often been informed &#8211; and I&#8217;m sure the same is true of lots of Christians who find blogs useful as a pointer to other resources.</p>
<p>In this as in other issues I think we are called to live in tension. In tension between an enjoyment of the good things in life that doesn&#8217;t end in hedonism, and a grace steeped urgency that doesn&#8217;t end in asceticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Caine</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7114</link>
		<dc:creator>Caine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7114</guid>
		<description>Couple of comments.

First, an interesting view of the phenomenon of the entertainment culture infecting the church, but really nothing new to any of us.  The why is the interesting, and perhaps illusive issue.  On the very same day this article was posted, I proposed a different cause: The reduction of the Gospel to &quot;Accept Jesus in your heart so you can go to heaven when you die&quot; may have left many wondering just what to inbetween.  With nothing really solid to answer except maybe &quot;be a good American,&quot; the church was left with nothing to offer except to entertain us until that glorious moment.  Maybe the entertainment emphasis is nothing more than a way to kill time in a holy way (as opposed to eat, drink, and be merry) until Jesus comes or we die.

Morbid, but I have been in a morbid mood lately.

On the second point, one of the comments above noted that the blog-sphere was part of the entertainment syndrome as well, something like cock-fights and lion-feasts.  Well maybe. But I see it as a grass-roots way to protest exactly what is happening in the Church.  Very often, more often than we may like to admit, the pastor insulates himself from any valid criticism. In my own church, we are basically on a &quot;go along or shut up&quot; phase.  Some people, many of them originating founders of the church, are trying to switch the direction from entertainment to discipleship programs but are being told to be quiet or leave.  Having no real alternative in where to go (believe me, church searching is a sport for the young), they comply and shut up.  Having seen my website, some are asking me how I did it so they can start one. 

When I ask &quot;why&quot; they respond, &quot;so I can have a voice again.&quot;

Sounds like a good enough reason to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of comments.</p>
<p>First, an interesting view of the phenomenon of the entertainment culture infecting the church, but really nothing new to any of us.  The why is the interesting, and perhaps illusive issue.  On the very same day this article was posted, I proposed a different cause: The reduction of the Gospel to &#8220;Accept Jesus in your heart so you can go to heaven when you die&#8221; may have left many wondering just what to inbetween.  With nothing really solid to answer except maybe &#8220;be a good American,&#8221; the church was left with nothing to offer except to entertain us until that glorious moment.  Maybe the entertainment emphasis is nothing more than a way to kill time in a holy way (as opposed to eat, drink, and be merry) until Jesus comes or we die.</p>
<p>Morbid, but I have been in a morbid mood lately.</p>
<p>On the second point, one of the comments above noted that the blog-sphere was part of the entertainment syndrome as well, something like cock-fights and lion-feasts.  Well maybe. But I see it as a grass-roots way to protest exactly what is happening in the Church.  Very often, more often than we may like to admit, the pastor insulates himself from any valid criticism. In my own church, we are basically on a &#8220;go along or shut up&#8221; phase.  Some people, many of them originating founders of the church, are trying to switch the direction from entertainment to discipleship programs but are being told to be quiet or leave.  Having no real alternative in where to go (believe me, church searching is a sport for the young), they comply and shut up.  Having seen my website, some are asking me how I did it so they can start one. </p>
<p>When I ask &#8220;why&#8221; they respond, &#8220;so I can have a voice again.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like a good enough reason to me.</p>
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		<title>By: irenicum</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7112</link>
		<dc:creator>irenicum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7112</guid>
		<description>Wow! That last post was devastating. All I can say is that the brutal honesty is both illuminating and chilling. Thank you, even though it hurts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! That last post was devastating. All I can say is that the brutal honesty is both illuminating and chilling. Thank you, even though it hurts.</p>
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		<title>By: wordsworth</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7105</link>
		<dc:creator>wordsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7105</guid>
		<description>I have a theory.  The entertainment saturation of the church is part of what has given rise to the savage behavior on internet blogs. I believe that the whole “discernment blogger” phenomena flows quite naturally out of the entertainment culture of the church. The vituperative bile that flows is possible because it’s all part of the entertainment. 

It’s not unlike the illegal dogfights, cockfights, or even coliseum events in first century Rome. The Discernment crowd will argue that this is REAL....and for the fighting dogs or slashing roosters or lion-mauled Christians, it is/was real too. But it was part of the entertainment. 

The conversations that slander and discount brothers and sisters in Christ aren’t really REAL LIFE. I know that several of the most outspoken Discerners claim adamantly that they would behave and speak no differently in real life than they do in the comment sections of blogs. I simply don’t believe it. If all the Discerners were engaging in real life, in proximity to the people that they are so quick to accuse and so quick to pronounce apostate, I believe that the interactions would be far different. It would be much harder to make sweeping, pejorative generalizations about Mark Driscoll’s unfitness for ministry if he was sitting across the table, drinking coffee, laughing, crying, struggling, speaking face to face. He would be a real person...

Realistically, posting on, reading, and commenting on blogs is part of the entertainment portion of our lives. We’re not doing real life with the Body of Christ when we’re sitting at the keyboard. We’re not living out the Great Commission--preaching the Gospel of Grace, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, doing unto “the least of these”,etc. We’re not even really making disciples. 

Virtual reality is NOT reality, no matter how rewarding the interactions. Penpals or email-pals only ever get a two-dimensional view of each other. The people who really know us live with us, work with us, ring up our groceries in the supermarket, sit next to us in Sunday school, watch us mow our lawns, repair our cars for us, and wait for us to come and tuck them in at bedtime. THAT is real life. Not the little people who live in our computers. 

Now my confession. I READ those blogs and comments. I find myself drawn to watch the dogfight, even though I’m repelled by it. Every day, I find myself reading with traffic-accident-so-awful-I-can’t-look-away morbid fascination. The ugliness and UNlove makes my stomach churn, feelings of helplessness overwhelm. Frustration with posters who clearly are not listening to each other, commenters who seem to be deliberately MIS-hearing each other, all make me feel physically ill. I am grieved that Christians rush to believe the worst about each other. I am saddened and disillusioned with leaders who write brutal responses to honest questions. I am outraged that the salvation of people who love and follow Jesus is called into question or outright disparaged. 

But still, I read. It’s entertainment. So was the coliseum. God help us all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a theory.  The entertainment saturation of the church is part of what has given rise to the savage behavior on internet blogs. I believe that the whole “discernment blogger” phenomena flows quite naturally out of the entertainment culture of the church. The vituperative bile that flows is possible because it’s all part of the entertainment. </p>
<p>It’s not unlike the illegal dogfights, cockfights, or even coliseum events in first century Rome. The Discernment crowd will argue that this is REAL&#8230;.and for the fighting dogs or slashing roosters or lion-mauled Christians, it is/was real too. But it was part of the entertainment. </p>
<p>The conversations that slander and discount brothers and sisters in Christ aren’t really REAL LIFE. I know that several of the most outspoken Discerners claim adamantly that they would behave and speak no differently in real life than they do in the comment sections of blogs. I simply don’t believe it. If all the Discerners were engaging in real life, in proximity to the people that they are so quick to accuse and so quick to pronounce apostate, I believe that the interactions would be far different. It would be much harder to make sweeping, pejorative generalizations about Mark Driscoll’s unfitness for ministry if he was sitting across the table, drinking coffee, laughing, crying, struggling, speaking face to face. He would be a real person&#8230;</p>
<p>Realistically, posting on, reading, and commenting on blogs is part of the entertainment portion of our lives. We’re not doing real life with the Body of Christ when we’re sitting at the keyboard. We’re not living out the Great Commission&#8211;preaching the Gospel of Grace, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, doing unto “the least of these”,etc. We’re not even really making disciples. </p>
<p>Virtual reality is NOT reality, no matter how rewarding the interactions. Penpals or email-pals only ever get a two-dimensional view of each other. The people who really know us live with us, work with us, ring up our groceries in the supermarket, sit next to us in Sunday school, watch us mow our lawns, repair our cars for us, and wait for us to come and tuck them in at bedtime. THAT is real life. Not the little people who live in our computers. </p>
<p>Now my confession. I READ those blogs and comments. I find myself drawn to watch the dogfight, even though I’m repelled by it. Every day, I find myself reading with traffic-accident-so-awful-I-can’t-look-away morbid fascination. The ugliness and UNlove makes my stomach churn, feelings of helplessness overwhelm. Frustration with posters who clearly are not listening to each other, commenters who seem to be deliberately MIS-hearing each other, all make me feel physically ill. I am grieved that Christians rush to believe the worst about each other. I am saddened and disillusioned with leaders who write brutal responses to honest questions. I am outraged that the salvation of people who love and follow Jesus is called into question or outright disparaged. </p>
<p>But still, I read. It’s entertainment. So was the coliseum. God help us all.</p>
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		<title>By: pdpreach</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7104</link>
		<dc:creator>pdpreach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7104</guid>
		<description>Not just Southern Baptists, Michael, we United Methodists are trying to beat the band to create the coolest mall atmostphere so that our kids will be spiritually nourished. God help us all.

Here&#039;s my problem: the band that is modeled after Coldplay? Given a choice, I might rather hear the Psalm singing youth group band. But, given the same choice, I promise you my own kids would despise what they would consider a poor wannabe knockoff. They&#039;ll go for Coldplay, Radio Head and Kings of Leon. I know that is not true for most church youth group kids. I&#039;m talking about my own parsonage grown rebellious preecherkids. They will be sold on &#039;contemporary&#039; youth stuff when it is truly original and contemporary to the church. In the mean time, these rockstar wannabees are content to sing from the hymnal. 

Truly, I struggle with this. Twentyfirst century church folks don&#039;t have the attention span of those from the the first century. Standing in front of the people reading long passages from Romans is just not as sexy as blasting media blips off the powerpoint screen. But, we can&#039;t stop standing in front of the people and reading the transforming words from Romans. What&#039;s a preachermom to do?

Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just Southern Baptists, Michael, we United Methodists are trying to beat the band to create the coolest mall atmostphere so that our kids will be spiritually nourished. God help us all.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my problem: the band that is modeled after Coldplay? Given a choice, I might rather hear the Psalm singing youth group band. But, given the same choice, I promise you my own kids would despise what they would consider a poor wannabe knockoff. They&#8217;ll go for Coldplay, Radio Head and Kings of Leon. I know that is not true for most church youth group kids. I&#8217;m talking about my own parsonage grown rebellious preecherkids. They will be sold on &#8216;contemporary&#8217; youth stuff when it is truly original and contemporary to the church. In the mean time, these rockstar wannabees are content to sing from the hymnal. </p>
<p>Truly, I struggle with this. Twentyfirst century church folks don&#8217;t have the attention span of those from the the first century. Standing in front of the people reading long passages from Romans is just not as sexy as blasting media blips off the powerpoint screen. But, we can&#8217;t stop standing in front of the people and reading the transforming words from Romans. What&#8217;s a preachermom to do?</p>
<p>Sharon</p>
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		<title>By: steve yates</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7101</link>
		<dc:creator>steve yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7101</guid>
		<description>Definitely true...however, one thing that scares me about this, and especially pushes towards being &quot;careful as to how far to take entertainment&quot;, is that our culture is more and more integrating entertainment into EVERYTHING that has to do with learning. The &quot;destructive influence&quot; of some culture already permeates everything. Think about it - years ago people got sports information from SportsCenter, now, it&#039;s in debate/gameshow formats such as PTI and Around the Horn. The thing that scares me about this is that perhaps the waves of culture and idolatry in the church have alredy washed over us ants, and we are sending warnings out now about the droplets still on our leaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely true&#8230;however, one thing that scares me about this, and especially pushes towards being &#8220;careful as to how far to take entertainment&#8221;, is that our culture is more and more integrating entertainment into EVERYTHING that has to do with learning. The &#8220;destructive influence&#8221; of some culture already permeates everything. Think about it &#8211; years ago people got sports information from SportsCenter, now, it&#8217;s in debate/gameshow formats such as PTI and Around the Horn. The thing that scares me about this is that perhaps the waves of culture and idolatry in the church have alredy washed over us ants, and we are sending warnings out now about the droplets still on our leaves.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7100</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7100</guid>
		<description>Great post.

IMO it is the combinination of marketing and entertainment that has given rise to the constant 24/7 laugh track and thrill ride. Great music, genuine wit and humor, interesting visual arts, and even recreation have always been wonderfully used to the glory of God. But they were &#039;organic&#039;, not forced.  True entertainment &#039;value&#039; springs from the natures, passions, and talents of the artists, writers, and speakers, not from somebody sitting down and thinking &quot;How can I make this entertaining (i.e. marketable)?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.</p>
<p>IMO it is the combinination of marketing and entertainment that has given rise to the constant 24/7 laugh track and thrill ride. Great music, genuine wit and humor, interesting visual arts, and even recreation have always been wonderfully used to the glory of God. But they were &#8216;organic&#8217;, not forced.  True entertainment &#8216;value&#8217; springs from the natures, passions, and talents of the artists, writers, and speakers, not from somebody sitting down and thinking &#8220;How can I make this entertaining (i.e. marketable)?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DCChang</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/entertainment/comment-page-1#comment-7099</link>
		<dc:creator>DCChang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 03:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/american-idolatry-the-really-big-show#comment-7099</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m beginning to feel bad that I look forward to checking this blog every night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m beginning to feel bad that I look forward to checking this blog every night.</p>
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