And as for Miss California, she lost a beauty pagaent. She lost NONE of her rights.

You have given me more than a few things to think about yourself. Your concerns over how many christians engage the culture wars is fully justified.

“…no education beyond high school…”
Wow, you could have fooled me!

To be honest, for someone like me with no education beyond high school, it can be really daunting to try and tackle these issues and get to the core of them.

I appreciate your response and am glad to have the opportunity to dig deeper into the issue.

Thank you for the reasonable and intelligent response. You asked several questions…here are my responses:

Question 1:
“I would be interested to know what elements of the left you feel have the connections, the popular support, the tax exempt status, and media channels to bring about a radical overthrow of our constitutional form of government.”

Wow, you really give me a softball with that one, thanks . Let’s start with the entire public education system, especially our system of higher education (private and public). The Humanities Departments of our universities routinely call for a complete repudication of our constitutional democracy (i.e. Women Studies, African American Studies, Latino Studies, Queer Studies, Peace Studies, etc.). Law schools invest new theories of jurisprudence which are completely counter to Western legal tradition. Schools of journalism promote the idea of activist journallism where the media is used as a vehicle for radical social change.

The ideas which geminate in our system of higher education have swamped our judicial system , lower education system and most media outlets. They have also all but taken over such philanthropic organizations as the Ford Foundation and the McCarther Foundation (non-profits), just to name two.

I could go on and on and on. And I could provide ample evidence for each of my claims.

Question 2:
“Again, I would ask which groups you feel represent this threat from the left that engage in violent methods to secure their goals.”

Use of violence from the left: hmmm, lets see, here’s a small list:

Past performances:
- Stalin Marxists
- Mao Marists
- Castro Marxists
- Weather Undergound
- Black Panthers
- Symbionese Liberation Army
- Hitler (yes Hitler)

Current Threats:
- Abortists of all kinds (if you believe a fetus is a human)
- Animal Liberation Front
- Earth Liberation Front
- A host of extremist groups which riot during G7 meeting, World Trade Conferences, Republican & Demoratic National conventions,
- Liberals who advocate violence are to many to list (ie. Che t-shirts, Mao t-shirts, etc.)
- Trade unions

Violence, ever since the French Revolution, has been a commonly used and a widely accepted tactic of the Left. Violence amoung Christians is a very rare and exceptional thing. And the number of Chistians who advocate violence is extremely small.

Question 3:
“Where is hate from the Christian right being generated from if it is not from the culture war?”

People (whether christians, buddhists, muslims, atheists, hindus, etc.) have known hate since the beginning of time. We figured out reasons to hate other long before the culture wars. And when the cuture wars are over people will go on hating. Christians figured out how to hate during the Crusades and in the the American South they figured out how to hate their slaves.

I maintain the aggressors in the culture wars are Lest radicals who are intent on changing the world. Many Christians are undoubtedly threatened by this and some react inappropriately.

I encourage you to read the following excellent essay on the culture wars:

http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3484376.html

This will give you some insight into where I am coming from.

Thank you again sir for the wonderful dialog.

Alfred
“For every misguided christian like Gary North there are 10 people on the Left who are more extreme.”

Me
Why would you say North is misguided?

Have you ever heard of the Coalition on Revival? North is a member along with a long list of influential and determined pastors and evangelical leaders. (list- http://65.175.91.69/Reformation_net/Pages/Signed_Manifesto_1986.htm)

Here is an overview of the the 24 year plan to remake America in the image of a “Christian” nation.
http://65.175.91.69/Reformation_net/Pages/24yearplanbrochure6page.pdf

I would be interested to know what elements of the left you feel have the connections, the popular support, the tax exempt status, and media channels to bring about a radical overthrow of our constitutional form of government.

Don’t get me wrong here. I am against efforts of the left and right to undo our constitution, but I think the right is a more present danger with potential to bring about a fascist regime than the left is to bring about a socialist one.

Alfred
“We call “christian” groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life “extremeists” but groups like it on the left are refered to as human rights activists.”

Me
Again, I would ask which groups you feel represent this threat from the left that engage in violent methods to secure their goals.

Alfred
What you have done sir is highlight a few extreme examples of christian-right activist groups. But what is amazing is just how uncommon these folks are.

Me
I would be happy to examine the groups on the left that you feel are equivalent to my examples. How many common extreme left groups are operating in America that you feel outnumber those on the right?

Alfred
“Yes, hate exists within the Christian community and this needs to end. However, I stand by my comment: the source of that hate is not the Culture War – at least not from the Right.”

Where is hate from the Christian right being generated from if it is not from the culture war?

From my perspective, a large amount of Christian hate has sprung from an unspoken premise that America is a Christian nation and anyone who denies this is an unpatriotic, American hating liberal who needs to be dealt with harshly.

For examples refer to several prominent Christian leaders such as the late Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Dr. Dobson, and Pat Robertson for just a sampling.

Add to this the right wing political figures like Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reiley, Coulter, and others who many evangelicals listen to regularly and you have an impressive media hate machine that demonizes anyone who questions the premise that Christain=Conservative=America.

Alfred
You make several other comments:

“I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “right”. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.”

I completely agree. However, I will say this, the extreme Left is waging a war against Christianity and I do believe it is wrong for christians not to resist those attacks. Incidently, I don’t vote – ever – so you make assumptions of me based on your own biases.”

I am sorry you mistook my general comments as describing your political views in particular.

I don’t deny that there are people who attack Christians, but I can say it has become common for some Christians to scream “persecution” when anyone argues against them.

Your opinion on the appropriate Christian response to attacks is one of several. Quakers and other “peace churches” might disagree with you. With sayings like “Do not resist evil” in the NT and other sentiments like it, a case can be made for non resistance as an appropriate reaction to attacks.

Alred
“I am quite sure I have no idea what a “Christianized” culture even looks likes. However, I do know what a culture looks like which makes it all but impossible for people to receive the Gospel. The culture war, to me, is about preventing the culture from becomimg completely infertile – spritually. When the very concept of right and wrong is expunged from the culture, grace becomes obsolete.

Incidently not every Christian culture warrior is looking for a return to prayer in schools or is looking to end the teaching of evolution. I want neither.”

I would count you among those I am not concerned about trying to undo our form of government then, but I am interested in seeing your examples I asked for above about the left.

Thanks.

For every misguided christian like Gary North there are 10 people on the Left who are more extreme.

We call “christian” groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life “extremeists” but groups like it on the left are refered to as human rights activists.

What you have done sir is highlight a few extreme examples of christian-right activist groups. But what is amazing is just how uncommon these folks are.

Yes, hate exists within the Christian community and this needs to end. However, I stand by my comment: the source of that hate is not the Culture War – at least not from the Right.

You make several other comments:

“I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “right”. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.”

I completely agree. However, I will say this, the extreme Left is waging a war against Christianity and I do believe it is wrong for christians not to resist those attacks. Incidently, I don’t vote – ever – so you make assumptions of me based on your own biases.

“Believe it or not, not all Christians think it is their duty to “Christianize” the culture.”

I am quite sure I have no idea what a “Christianized” culture even looks likes. However, I do know what a culture looks like which makes it all but impossible for people to receive the Gospel. The culture war, to me, is about preventing the culture from becomimg completely infertile – spritually. When the very concept of right and wrong is expunged from the culture, grace becomes obsolete.

Incidently not every Christian culture warrior is looking for a return to prayer in schools or is looking to end the teaching of evolution. I want neither.

“But what gulls me is the presumption that: 1) Christians are the aggressors in the Culture Wars;”

How do you define the “Culture War” that non Christians have been the “aggressors” in? Are we talking about the removal of the Bible as a school text book or is it Roe v Wade or the separation of church and state?

and
“2) those who align themselves on the Right of the Culture Wars teach fear and hate. Both of those charges are false. Our sinful nature tells us to hate not the Culture War. And it is the Left who is the aggressors in the Culture War not the christian Right.”

Ever hear of people like Gary North and his father-in-law Rushdoony? Check out their writings and tell me they are not aggressors for the “right”.

Would you consider anti abortionist groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life Activists to be elements of the left?

Is Fred Phelps a phenomena of the left?

I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “right”. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.

Believe it or not, not all Christians think it is their duty to “Christianize” the culture.

If you can’t see why people think believers are aggressors in the culture war, you need to educate yourself with some information that does not come from distilled from the right.

Yes of course Christians need to love everyone, even their enemies. And yes of course the Gospel tells us that we need to be compassionate toward the disenfranchised. This is the stuff you learn in Sunday school.

But what gulls me is the presumption that: 1) Christians are the aggressors in the Culture Wars; and 2) those who align themselves on the Right of the Culture Wars teach fear and hate. Both of those charges are false. Our sinful nature tells us to hate not the Culture War. And it is the Left who is the aggressors in the Culture War not the christian Right.

A perfect example of this is the battle over gay marriage. After proposition 209 won in California, gay activists took revenge on small business owner who dared to give money to the winning side. Several people who supported 209 lost their jobs. Most recently Carrie Prejean (Miss California) was targeted for humiliation. The targeting of Carrie Prejean is an example of how vicious and conniving the Culture Warriors on the Left have become. Miss California was purposefully singled out to be asked the “Gay marriage” question because of proposition 209. She lost the contest because of her “hateful” answer. Since then she has been harassed and will possibly be stripped of her Miss California title. The issue here is not about Miss America – who cares about that silly contest? The issue here is the calculated use of intimidation. After all who will be silly enough to step forward with an anti-gay marriage stand after that display.

That homosexuals believe that Christians hate them is to some extent the fault of homosexuals. If today Jesus were to tell a homosexual that he is not condemned but that he is to sin no more (as he did the harlot who was to be stoned) I am sure the gay community’s reaction would be open indignation over Jesus’ obvious lack of tolerance.

Mr. Spencer, it would be good of you sir if you would do a little research on the origins of the Culture War. You may want to start with a little research on a man named Antonio Gramsci. You may then want to move on to learn about the Frankfurt School, critical theory, repressive tolerance, authoritarian personality, deconstruction, post-structuralism, and the rest of the post-modern bag of tricks. There are no easy answers to this new challenge to Christianity. If it was just about Christian morality then what we are facing would be of little concern – but what is happening is far deeper than that.

I agree, hate is not the answer – quite the opposite. But neither is leaving it to the sworn enemies of Christianity to define the terms of the debate.