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	<title>Comments on: Difficult Concept Workshop: Repeat After Me&#8230;&#8221;The Shack Is A Story&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Trish Pickard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-339205</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Pickard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-339205</guid>
		<description>I was set not to like the book, The Shack but after reading it, I thought it was really good and thought provoking. All the time I read it, I kept thinking it needs a study to go along with it. I finally decided God was urging me to write a study which I did. If anyone would like it, email me at prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com. I would be glad to send you the study. You are welcome to use it and copy it for others.
Trish Pickard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was set not to like the book, The Shack but after reading it, I thought it was really good and thought provoking. All the time I read it, I kept thinking it needs a study to go along with it. I finally decided God was urging me to write a study which I did. If anyone would like it, email me at <a href="mailto:prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com">prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com</a>. I would be glad to send you the study. You are welcome to use it and copy it for others.<br />
Trish Pickard</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Waterman</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-324722</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Waterman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-324722</guid>
		<description>Hey James F, I think you&#039;re referring to the Introduction.  In this case, the &quot;Willie&quot; of the Introduction is also a **fictional character**.  Therefore, the fictional character of Willie is relating that the fictional character of Mac actually had this experience happen to him. It&#039;s a literary device.

Chuck Waterman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey James F, I think you&#8217;re referring to the Introduction.  In this case, the &#8220;Willie&#8221; of the Introduction is also a **fictional character**.  Therefore, the fictional character of Willie is relating that the fictional character of Mac actually had this experience happen to him. It&#8217;s a literary device.</p>
<p>Chuck Waterman</p>
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		<title>By: Trish Pickard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-323353</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Pickard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-323353</guid>
		<description>I was set not to like the book, The Shack but after reading it, I thought it was really good and thought provoking. All the time I reaad it, I kept thinking it needs a study to go along with it. I finally decided God was urging me to write a study which I did. If anyone would like it, email me at prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com. I would be glad to send you the study. You are welcome to use it and copy it for others.
Trish Pickard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was set not to like the book, The Shack but after reading it, I thought it was really good and thought provoking. All the time I reaad it, I kept thinking it needs a study to go along with it. I finally decided God was urging me to write a study which I did. If anyone would like it, email me at <a href="mailto:prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com">prayerdigm.bookstudy@yahoo.com</a>. I would be glad to send you the study. You are welcome to use it and copy it for others.<br />
Trish Pickard</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-320298</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-320298</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post Michael.  I have to admit that I read the book about 3/4&#039;s of the way through and haven&#039;t finished it yet...I simply got kind of bored.  I had heard there was a major twist and surprise, which I am assuming was the portrayal of the trinity.  I don&#039;t have any problem with the literary way he chose to do this...I just immediately found it very cliche and hollywood...shock everybody by taking a preconceived notion of God the Father as a bearded Santa Clause like elderly man of wisdom and make him into Queen Latifah.  Pardon me if I have seen this plotline in so many movies it seemed like a lack of imagination to me.  

The book is clearly story, not systematic theology, for me the imagination was lacking and trying to explain the mystery of the trinity...well, perhaps it is best left a mystery...maybe it is meant to be that way for us.
The part of the story that is very interesting and I think relates to everybody is the simple question that all of our &quot;great sadnesses&quot; bring us to...How can God love me if He lets this happen to me?  The only real answer is that our search to answer it can only drive us to the cross in my opinion which, at least for me, has been my pilgrimmage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post Michael.  I have to admit that I read the book about 3/4&#8217;s of the way through and haven&#8217;t finished it yet&#8230;I simply got kind of bored.  I had heard there was a major twist and surprise, which I am assuming was the portrayal of the trinity.  I don&#8217;t have any problem with the literary way he chose to do this&#8230;I just immediately found it very cliche and hollywood&#8230;shock everybody by taking a preconceived notion of God the Father as a bearded Santa Clause like elderly man of wisdom and make him into Queen Latifah.  Pardon me if I have seen this plotline in so many movies it seemed like a lack of imagination to me.  </p>
<p>The book is clearly story, not systematic theology, for me the imagination was lacking and trying to explain the mystery of the trinity&#8230;well, perhaps it is best left a mystery&#8230;maybe it is meant to be that way for us.<br />
The part of the story that is very interesting and I think relates to everybody is the simple question that all of our &#8220;great sadnesses&#8221; bring us to&#8230;How can God love me if He lets this happen to me?  The only real answer is that our search to answer it can only drive us to the cross in my opinion which, at least for me, has been my pilgrimmage.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-303957</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-303957</guid>
		<description>If you didn&#039;t get STORY out of this work, you read the book with the wrong attitude.  For my money, any book, script, or speech which can move me to treat my fellow man with love, nonjudgment and respect AND bring me closer to God simply by the way GOD is explained, is a treasure.  I have given the book to my dear friends and siblings and hope that they will take from it those kernels of truth which they find therein.  Who is to say that this man&#039;s experience and explanation of God/Trinity is wrong?  Afterall, man developed theology.  As a lifelong Catholic, I value my religion, but the constant dogma and inaccessibility are not only defeating, but off-putting.  Aren&#039;t we simply here to love, live as the best humans we are capable of being and then go home to our God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you didn&#8217;t get STORY out of this work, you read the book with the wrong attitude.  For my money, any book, script, or speech which can move me to treat my fellow man with love, nonjudgment and respect AND bring me closer to God simply by the way GOD is explained, is a treasure.  I have given the book to my dear friends and siblings and hope that they will take from it those kernels of truth which they find therein.  Who is to say that this man&#8217;s experience and explanation of God/Trinity is wrong?  Afterall, man developed theology.  As a lifelong Catholic, I value my religion, but the constant dogma and inaccessibility are not only defeating, but off-putting.  Aren&#8217;t we simply here to love, live as the best humans we are capable of being and then go home to our God?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-295060</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-295060</guid>
		<description>Hmm-- creating God in your own image. Let&#039;s at least admit that we all do it in one way or another.  EG God as a male deity. The problem is with the English 3d person singular, not with the Hebrew and Greek text. Also interesting that &quot;El Shaddai,&quot; the &quot;More than sufficient Breast,&quot; never gets translated that way....

I am one of those who expected to be bothered by the &quot;Christian mediocrity&quot; issue, because I do get frustrated by it.  However, God used the Shack to get me to reexamine my subconscious, visceral attitudes toward God, and I found a lot of things that were holding me back. 

I grew up in a church with a solid theological emphasis, and I value my heritage. However, repeated emphasis can cause things to become &quot;old hat.&quot; Moreover, it&#039;s not an issue so much of what is in the Bible as how we&#039;ve taken the wine and turned it back into water because we are threatened by the mysterium tremendum, or the extravagance of grace and love. We all see things in the Bible differently. It is unfortunate that we polarize and question each other&#039;s orthodoxy rather than being relaxed enough to engage in stimulating dialogue and begin to see God in a new way.  God is big enough that no one can see all of divinity.  What are we really so afraid of, that we have to keep &quot;biting and devouring &quot; each other? God doesn&#039;t need me to defend Godself.

 The Shack helped me see how, in spite of the best theology, certain things get distorted  by quoting texts and Bible beatings. It helped me see my own distrust of God and my own judgement of God.
My own &quot;Great Sadness&quot; has to do with spiritual abuse suffered at the hands of the &quot;righteous&quot;-- the way some Christian subcultures seek to fit everyone into a particular, &quot;scriptural&quot; mold, with the result that people are dehumanized, not allowed to be genuine, and feel they have to defend their holiness by judging others, or being so absorbed in their praise and worship that there is no real communication, much less communion.  I bear scars from those who claim to hear from God issuing their divine judgements about me because I do not fit their molds. I told God, &quot;no thanks. if those who are so close to you are like that, I don&#039;t want any.  Why do your people become so mean and nasty and downright weird?&quot;

I think it is the spirit, and not the letter, of the book that got to me, reminding me of God&#039;s patience, compassion, kindness, lack of disappointment, pathos,  creativity, playfulness, humor, delightfulness, desire to be with the kids, and affection, all of which tends to get overlooked in theological discourse.  It also gave me hope for my own journey, and melted something on the visceral level that released my barriers toward God.  I am grateful for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8211; creating God in your own image. Let&#8217;s at least admit that we all do it in one way or another.  EG God as a male deity. The problem is with the English 3d person singular, not with the Hebrew and Greek text. Also interesting that &#8220;El Shaddai,&#8221; the &#8220;More than sufficient Breast,&#8221; never gets translated that way&#8230;.</p>
<p>I am one of those who expected to be bothered by the &#8220;Christian mediocrity&#8221; issue, because I do get frustrated by it.  However, God used the Shack to get me to reexamine my subconscious, visceral attitudes toward God, and I found a lot of things that were holding me back. </p>
<p>I grew up in a church with a solid theological emphasis, and I value my heritage. However, repeated emphasis can cause things to become &#8220;old hat.&#8221; Moreover, it&#8217;s not an issue so much of what is in the Bible as how we&#8217;ve taken the wine and turned it back into water because we are threatened by the mysterium tremendum, or the extravagance of grace and love. We all see things in the Bible differently. It is unfortunate that we polarize and question each other&#8217;s orthodoxy rather than being relaxed enough to engage in stimulating dialogue and begin to see God in a new way.  God is big enough that no one can see all of divinity.  What are we really so afraid of, that we have to keep &#8220;biting and devouring &#8221; each other? God doesn&#8217;t need me to defend Godself.</p>
<p> The Shack helped me see how, in spite of the best theology, certain things get distorted  by quoting texts and Bible beatings. It helped me see my own distrust of God and my own judgement of God.<br />
My own &#8220;Great Sadness&#8221; has to do with spiritual abuse suffered at the hands of the &#8220;righteous&#8221;&#8211; the way some Christian subcultures seek to fit everyone into a particular, &#8220;scriptural&#8221; mold, with the result that people are dehumanized, not allowed to be genuine, and feel they have to defend their holiness by judging others, or being so absorbed in their praise and worship that there is no real communication, much less communion.  I bear scars from those who claim to hear from God issuing their divine judgements about me because I do not fit their molds. I told God, &#8220;no thanks. if those who are so close to you are like that, I don&#8217;t want any.  Why do your people become so mean and nasty and downright weird?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it is the spirit, and not the letter, of the book that got to me, reminding me of God&#8217;s patience, compassion, kindness, lack of disappointment, pathos,  creativity, playfulness, humor, delightfulness, desire to be with the kids, and affection, all of which tends to get overlooked in theological discourse.  It also gave me hope for my own journey, and melted something on the visceral level that released my barriers toward God.  I am grateful for that.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-288780</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-288780</guid>
		<description>In interviews, Young says the book is an allegorical account of his years in counseling and subsequent healing from his own great sadness. That&#039;s what he means about &quot;really happening.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In interviews, Young says the book is an allegorical account of his years in counseling and subsequent healing from his own great sadness. That&#8217;s what he means about &#8220;really happening.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James F</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-2#comment-288561</link>
		<dc:creator>James F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-288561</guid>
		<description>Why hasn&#039;t anyone commented on Young&#039;s foreword where he claims that the things that take place in the book actually happened. This is my major qualm with the book and the wrench in the argument that it is &quot;only a story.&quot; Please someone respond to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why hasn&#8217;t anyone commented on Young&#8217;s foreword where he claims that the things that take place in the book actually happened. This is my major qualm with the book and the wrench in the argument that it is &#8220;only a story.&#8221; Please someone respond to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-1#comment-287134</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-287134</guid>
		<description>I know no one but you may read my comment, Spence, at this point. But a thought just occurred to me about &quot;The Shack.&quot; Yes, controversy has stirred over the portrayal of God as a woman. But in many Christians&#039; actual experience, God is represented and has been represented most of the time by women during their spiritual formation. In real life. Not in art. Christian men around them are too busy or noncommittal (or simply unqualified) to disciple and mentor young Christians around them.

Second, to comment on Aslan, what if he had been portrayed as a lamb instead of a lion? Would Narnia have been as popular? Consider:

&quot;And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth&quot; (Revelation 5:5-6 KJV).

The elder spoke to John about Jesus as the Lion, but when Jesus revealed Himself in the next moment to John, He revealed Himself as the Lamb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know no one but you may read my comment, Spence, at this point. But a thought just occurred to me about &#8220;The Shack.&#8221; Yes, controversy has stirred over the portrayal of God as a woman. But in many Christians&#8217; actual experience, God is represented and has been represented most of the time by women during their spiritual formation. In real life. Not in art. Christian men around them are too busy or noncommittal (or simply unqualified) to disciple and mentor young Christians around them.</p>
<p>Second, to comment on Aslan, what if he had been portrayed as a lamb instead of a lion? Would Narnia have been as popular? Consider:</p>
<p>&#8220;And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth&#8221; (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=9&amp;passage=Revelation+5%3A5-6" class="bibleref" title="KJV Revelation 5:5-6">Revelation 5:5-6 KJV</a>).</p>
<p>The elder spoke to John about Jesus as the Lion, but when Jesus revealed Himself in the next moment to John, He revealed Himself as the Lamb.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story/comment-page-1#comment-286549</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/difficult-concept-workshop-repeat-after-methe-shack-is-a-story#comment-286549</guid>
		<description>Paul Pederson,

You write that if I can&#039;t get past the &quot;minor issue&quot; of the book that I have seemingly anchored myself on, then I &quot;will miss the peace, joy, and freedom that Christ intended me to have.&quot;  Brother, in all sincerity and love, I must ask-- isn&#039;t that hanging a *lot* of my relationship with God on a fictional book?  Is getting what so many other people have gotten out of the &quot;The Shack&quot; (positively, that is) crucial to my Christian life?

One doesn&#039;t have to love &quot;The Shack&quot; in order to deeply experience the mysteries of the Christian life.  The Bible contains more mystery than I can ever penetrate with my puny, finite mind.  Before anyone goes there, again, I&#039;m *not* anti-art.  I love art-- all forms of it!  Great art has enriched my Christian life, from the music of J.S. Bach to the films of Ingmar Bergman to the novels of Dostoevsky.  Art made by thoughtful non-Christians (such as Bergman) has even enriched my life more than most contemporary &quot;art&quot; (I use the term loosely) made by Christians.  

Having said that, when a Christian author writes a fictional book intending to convey some sort of message about the Christian life, and that book contains serious theological errors, *and* it is getting a wide audience which is being deeply affected by it, that concerns me.  Are we so sure of the soundness of our faith that we think we cannot be negatively affected by the bad theology in a Christian novel?  The very fact that so many people say that book has drawn them closer to the the true God, when the true God and His ways are seriously misrepresented at different points in the book, illustrates my concern.

I love art.  I love symbol.  I love metaphor.  I know very well how these things work.  I majored in English in college, and I love quality novels, poems, and films.  Again, a novel doesn&#039;t have to pass a theology test in order to be valuable.  

However, C.S. Lewis himself said that one could &quot;smuggle in&quot; a a good bit of theology in the form of novels, poems, etc.  Aslan is a Christ figure.  Lewis said that he didn&#039;t intend for Aslan to be taken even as an artistic depiction of Christ Himself, but as a Christ figure of sorts.  Conversely, &quot;The Shack,&quot; in the *artistic form of fantasy,* purports to tell us truths about the true God.  It doesn&#039;t say that God *is* a black woman.  It does strongly imply, though, that God is willing to reveal Himself to us in ways that *conflict* with how He reveals Himself in the Bible, and that He is willing to do so because of our issues and weaknesses.  This is a pop psychology God.  By contrast, in Flannery O&#039;Connor&#039;s works, to my knowledge, God is never shown as working in ways that are opposed to His revelation of Himself in the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Pederson,</p>
<p>You write that if I can&#8217;t get past the &#8220;minor issue&#8221; of the book that I have seemingly anchored myself on, then I &#8220;will miss the peace, joy, and freedom that Christ intended me to have.&#8221;  Brother, in all sincerity and love, I must ask&#8211; isn&#8217;t that hanging a *lot* of my relationship with God on a fictional book?  Is getting what so many other people have gotten out of the &#8220;The Shack&#8221; (positively, that is) crucial to my Christian life?</p>
<p>One doesn&#8217;t have to love &#8220;The Shack&#8221; in order to deeply experience the mysteries of the Christian life.  The Bible contains more mystery than I can ever penetrate with my puny, finite mind.  Before anyone goes there, again, I&#8217;m *not* anti-art.  I love art&#8211; all forms of it!  Great art has enriched my Christian life, from the music of J.S. Bach to the films of Ingmar Bergman to the novels of Dostoevsky.  Art made by thoughtful non-Christians (such as Bergman) has even enriched my life more than most contemporary &#8220;art&#8221; (I use the term loosely) made by Christians.  </p>
<p>Having said that, when a Christian author writes a fictional book intending to convey some sort of message about the Christian life, and that book contains serious theological errors, *and* it is getting a wide audience which is being deeply affected by it, that concerns me.  Are we so sure of the soundness of our faith that we think we cannot be negatively affected by the bad theology in a Christian novel?  The very fact that so many people say that book has drawn them closer to the the true God, when the true God and His ways are seriously misrepresented at different points in the book, illustrates my concern.</p>
<p>I love art.  I love symbol.  I love metaphor.  I know very well how these things work.  I majored in English in college, and I love quality novels, poems, and films.  Again, a novel doesn&#8217;t have to pass a theology test in order to be valuable.  </p>
<p>However, C.S. Lewis himself said that one could &#8220;smuggle in&#8221; a a good bit of theology in the form of novels, poems, etc.  Aslan is a Christ figure.  Lewis said that he didn&#8217;t intend for Aslan to be taken even as an artistic depiction of Christ Himself, but as a Christ figure of sorts.  Conversely, &#8220;The Shack,&#8221; in the *artistic form of fantasy,* purports to tell us truths about the true God.  It doesn&#8217;t say that God *is* a black woman.  It does strongly imply, though, that God is willing to reveal Himself to us in ways that *conflict* with how He reveals Himself in the Bible, and that He is willing to do so because of our issues and weaknesses.  This is a pop psychology God.  By contrast, in Flannery O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s works, to my knowledge, God is never shown as working in ways that are opposed to His revelation of Himself in the Bible.</p>
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