Blame Bill Kinnon. And if talk about sex bothers you, then you probably need another religion. You’re out of luck in this one.
It was the grin that really got to me.
The arrogant, know-it-all, self-confident, re-inventing the wheel, just got me some grin.
The “I am a young pastor and I know everything in the world” grin.
You were sitting there on CNN, with your wife, talking about having sex 6 out of 7 nights this week.
Your wife said it was great. (That’s a relief. Bummer if she said she would rather not be forced into daily marital relations by pastoral demand.)
And the reporters are interested, because your church isn’t talking about God. It’s talking about sex so it can talk about God.
And you’re grinning from ear to ear. You’ve got the world on a string. Or by a thong.
You’re the master of the evangelical universe. You’ve got the Bible on your side. Song of Solomon. It’s about sex. So couples, take the seven day sex challenge. Or the 30 day. Or whatever doesn’t kill you.
Women, it is time to submit! God’s will has been announced! It’s the Seven Day Sex Challenge!
Git ‘er done there Christians.
We’re sexy now. We’re having sex, yes we are. Sex. Ask me to say it again. Sex.
Here’s the message for the world this week: We’re for having sex. Lots of sex. Sex in bed. Sex in sexy lingerie. (Maybe a show at the ladies ministry this month? Yes?) Sex with the pastor’s approval.
“Oh Gaaawd.”
“Amen, honey. Amen.”
The boys are coming to church now. What will grinning Ed say next? Men like this church. They can’t wait to be there…and to get home! “Go to your rooms, kids. Mom and Dad have some church stuff to do.”
“MOM AND DAD ARE DOING THE SEVEN DAY SEX CHALLENGE!!! EEEWWWW!
Will he take a cue from Pastor Mark and his hottie wife and answer texted questions about penis enlargement and various forms of non-traditional intercourse?
Song of Solomon! Whoo-hooo! We got a sexy Bible book, yes we do. We’re grinnin’!!
No wonder Ed is grinning. Everybody in Fellowship church is getting it on.
The singles can look forward to it. The disabled can pray about it. The troubled marriages can argue about it. The engaged can almost do it. The widows and widowers can remember it.
The married people can DO IT and get to talk about it. “How many days did you do it?” “Oh we did it eight.” “We only did four. Pray for us.”
The folks at church want you to know that it’s time to obey God and have seven days of AWESOME SEX! (And we also have some other stuff to talk about when we have time, but it’s not that important.)
And now, Ed, here’s something else you can grin about.
Try and preach regular sermons from the Bible now. See where the crowd is when the dog and pony show is over.
Talk about discipleship. Or stewardship. Or world hunger. Or some other sexy topic.
And grin.
Also, thanks on behalf of all the normal pastors, Ed, whose people are going to be asking why their pastor isn’t talking about his sex life? Why isn’t the pastor’s wife talking about how much she enjoys sex with the pastor? Why aren’t they up there together sitting on a bed talking about sex?
If they cared about church growth they would sit on the bed and talk about how much they love to have sex every day if possible.
Guess those pastors who have too much maturity and personal humility to drop their pants in the pulpit will just have to watch those young families go down to fellowship church where the grinning pastor and his satisfied wife talk SEX.
If my pastor was forced to talk this way, he’d weep. But he’s kindof an old guy. His members should be in a megachurch anyway.
How about a little video right from the bedroom, Ed. WIth you and the wife right afterward? Wow. The Lord could really use that couldn’t he? Prayer video while everyone is a little steamed up?
Ever thought of the video production possibilities, Ed? Couples might need a little video instruction. Could be verrry profitable. Look into that.
I used to think that John Crowder- with his faux marijuana routine- was as bad as it gets in evangelicalism.
But you’ve kicked that door down. You’ve made Crowder’s “Tokin’ the Ghost” look like a seminar on exegeting Hebrews.
Brilliant move, Ed. We’ve used sex to sell everything else. Now we can use it to get people into church. Sexy sermons. Sexy wives. Sexy grins. Sex. Sex. Sex. Can’t get enough of it.
(You know, if I did this routine about my sex life in front of my high school classes, I’d get fired. What’s the deal?)
On behalf of the few thousand of us who now have no reason to remain evangelicals at all. thanks. I couldn’t be more humiliated. And whatever you’re doing, keep it in Texas.
And remember this: Joel Osteen’s is bigger than yours. Uh…his grin, that is.
Keep having sex and telling us all about it. Keep smiling. (I almost said keep it up. Boy, this is hard. Oh…sorry….)
Sincerely,
Michael Spencer
Their wrong thinking doesn’t make the bible wrong. Paul doesn’t say being married solves the problem. He says it helps. And he’s directing completely natural sexual urges into the correct context, marriage.
For the convenience of those who see the silver lining in every Cat 5 hurricane, who see the beauty of the streaking comet just before impact at Muleshoe, Texas, here is a list of certified, pre-manufactured responses to this post. Just check the appropriate blank and deposit your response in the IM comment box. The management thanks you for your concern.
____ If you think Pastor Ed is doing something wrong, did you bother to approach him in private about your concerns before broadcasting your complaints publicly?
____ You must have some sexual hang-ups.
____ Since Pastor Ed’s topic is more likely to get many unchurched people into church where they will get saved, what does it matter if you think it’s a little over the top?
____ Great. Another blogger dogging on the megachurch. You make me and the baby Jesus cry.
____ If this is what people in Pastor Ed’s church want, or if this topic is what Pastor Ed believes his church needs to hear, what gives you the right to say it’s such a bad thing?
____ You’re just jealous [circle one:]
of Ed
of Ed’s ministry
that you didn’t think of the idea first.
I never said it did.
And the reporters are interested, because your church isn’t talking about God. It’s talking about sex so it can talk about God.
Uhhh, IMonk, everybody…
Don’t humans have a real crappy track record of mixing the sacred and the erotic? Like all those Canaanite fertility cults that surrounded (and tried to infiltrate) ancient Judaism?
It’s like with humans Sacred/Divine + Erotic/Sexual = Epic Fail somewhere down the line.
Thank your for this post. I fortunately left that church after going to the first “At the movies” sermon, Ed on the big screen talking about fear and playing parts of Jaws. With popcorn and soda handed out before hand! I have since found a bible preaching church just down the road from us where our family is very happy. My wife really appreciates your humor, keep it up!
The boys are coming to church now. What will grinning Ed say next?
Good thing I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that line. “Grinning Ed (TM)”.
You see, years ago there was this commercial for a “natural male enhancement” (i.e. boner pills) whose name I don’t remember. I only remember the commercial; a guy named “Bob” (who was “very happy” using the product) whose face was frozen in a tetanus-like grin. (I didn’t know tetanospasmin was erotic…) The commercial was basically Bob grimacing silently in his risus sardonicus while the narrator (and other on-screen characters) make double-entendre after double-entendre. One of those things you can’t forget because it’s so awful.
And when you said “Grinning Ed (TM)”, I immediately flashed on Bob the Tetanus Boy.
Joel:
I’m gonna reply with as much tact as possible.
I will check none of your boxes. I’ll check this box:
___ Sick and tired of the sex/pornographic culture of America. Absolutely disgusted that the guy can’t draw “unchurched” people by preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. Disgusted with the lack of respect the church has gained because of stunts like this. Believe that the sacredness of man and wife is essentially a private matter. Believe that people who need counseling in this area do so in a respectful matter. Ready for the Kingdom to come so all this immorality will be dust and ash.
That’s my box Joel.
Oh…and last time I checked, King David had a whole host of women to fulfill his needs, but still managed to fall into sin with Bathsheba.
What’s wrong with pounding and pounding away at biblical application and erecting a huge ministry that lubricates people’s entry into the church, satisfies their most urgent longings and penetrates deep into their…hearts? — Andrew
I WAS eating breakfast when I read that, Andrew. Almost sprayed oatmeal all over my monitor.
At least your line got Bridal Mysticism right, full-strength on the rocks instead of the watered-down “Jesus Is My Boyfriend” praise chorus version they drink today.
P.S. Andrew’s comment is also the type of dialog I was trying to describe in the “Bob the Tetanus Boy” commercial. Grinning Ed, meet Grinning Bob…
Monk, I like what you said “Try and preach regular sermons from the Bible now. See where the crowd is when the dog and pony show is over.
Talk about discipleship. Or stewardship. Or world hunger. Or some other sexy topic.”
Ed get’s under my skin. He tries to hard to look pretty.
Kyle, I’m ready too.
terri…I understand your argument, but I would also argue that having that host of women was exactly why he fell into sin with Bathsheba. He was already living in sin. If he would have worked to be satisfied with his wife and continued to work with her to cultivate a biblical intimacy, he would have been more guarded against that.
I would totally participate in this if I had a girlfriend.
Wait..
Suggestion for another comment thread: What state in the United States offers the best/worst of evangelicalism? I’d say my home state has a fighting chance to win on the worst side with Ed Young Jr and Joel Osteen and John Hagee and …
A friend of mine sent me the link for this blog. Very interesting reading. As an Assitant Pastor in a reformed tradition, I have my own hang-ups with how alot of mega-churches are done. In fact there is a youtube video some of you might want to track down comparing the marketing of starbucks to the church. I can’t remember what it is called exactly, something to do with marketing…anyway. I am disapointed to see such attacking of another brother as I have read on these posts. Attack the methodology if you want, but the personal attacks are too far. “He who is without sin…” I have listened to the whole series on sex from Ed and he DOES address adultery, infidelity, porngraphy, divorce, etc. He also has awsome sermons on stewardship and finances. He has preached tremendous messages about the cross and the redeption only found in Christ. He has verbally stated numerous times that they do what they do to get people in the door to hear about Jesus. How many of you honestly know all these things? Did you take the time to look into what he has done and said before jumping on the bandwagon to bashing Ed Young Jr.? You should be ashamed of your reponses and should be led to repentance over your horrible public choice of words. Ed Young is not is the same category as Joel Olsteen or Robert Schuler and to make that comparison is unjust and ungrounded.
It was interesting to hear from a member (a good friend) of Fellowship where i ws curious where he stood on the outcry – Check it out. What do you think?
” guess I might stand where (possibly you & obviously many others) stand if all I read about this issue were the negative blogs and people’s opinion of the subject when they themselves weren’t there to hear the entire 3 week series and put this one aspect in its proper perspective. But fortunately I’ve been around long enough to give others the benefit of the doubt when I don’t know the whole story instead of having a predetermined, negative strategy about what Ed and Fellowship might be trying to accomplish through this series and the challenge of 7 days in a row. (If you’re curious I only made it 2 days and then got sick..not from the sex)
Where do I stand? The message series was “Leaving Lust Vegas†and dealt with the subject of lust and how its tentacles can pull us in and ruin our lives (big picture). There was a lot of good stuff for married couples. I had a guy I’ve been discipling for a while and one of his problems has been “wandering eyesâ€. He said after a week of sex he doesn’t even want to think about it. Now obviously I know that is only one week and it may not solve his problem. But if a man is drawn closer to his wife because there is more regular intimate contact and it lessens or cures his lustful eyes, then AMEN to that. Do I think expository preaching of the word can accomplish the same thing? Yes. But I also believe God uses all kinds of preaching to accomplish His purpose.
I thought that some of it was a bit over the top, but a lot of things Fellowship does are over the top. Does that make it wrong? I don’t think so. Does that make it un-Godly or less Godly? I don’t think so. It was a little rough I thought for the younger teenagers. In the first message Ed used a toilet as a prop on stage and it was very powerful. I will tell you this. He didn’t say one thing…not one thing….that I heard (I Missed last week with a fever)…that I disagreed with. He was right on, honest, frank and true. Lisa also spoke for a few minutes from a woman’ perspective and she was dead on as well. It wasn’t the best series Ed’s ever done, but it certainly was a good series. [MODERATOR EDItED]
I think the only problem I had was with the whole media attention. Isn’t it funny that the only time the media wants to get involved with church is when there is some sort of financial scandal or sex. But the minute the local media heard about it, it was all over the papers, radio and TV. Then of course the national media picked it up and the whole thing turned into a circus. I suspect that Ed did the interviews for two reasons. One, to make sure he got his point across so the story wasn’t completely twisted (instead of just partially twisted) and two, raise awareness about Fellowship Church. (These are my thoughts only.) I also suspect that after the firestorm of attention he may choose not to do it again. (Again my thoughts)
[MODERATOR EDITED: Way off topic and basically accusing us of denigrating everything good about Young's church. That's simply false.]
Chris G:
I respect your authority as an associate pastor and as a man. I do not retract any of my statements though. Jesus told the Pharisees, “he without sin cast the first stone” when they were about to kill a woman caught in adultery. But when they were selling pigeons in the temple he went through there like a madman and turned the tables over. If Ed wasn’t a pastor it would be different. If he didn’t take the story to CNN so the entire world could laugh at the church it would be different. If he used widsom and tact would be different. But he knew the sexual addiction of the country and the church, and he used it to draw attention. We’ll let God be the judge. I am neither ashamed nor repentant. It’s my job to uphold the respect of God’s Kingdom. If I’m wrong I’m wrong.
Thanks,
Kyle
“I’m getting a ticket to Iran and checking out the Islamic faith. Maybe I can find some purity there.”
“Sick and tired of the sex/pornographic culture of America.”
“Ready for the Kingdom to come so all this immorality will be dust and ash.”
“The great whore of Babylon who has made the world drunk with her adulteries will be drowning in her filth in the lake of fire.”
“No longer will I hear filth or trash or sexual immorality.”
“The church will be free from the influence of this godless nation.”
Kyle,
You need to seek counseling. Sex is obviously a HUGE stumbling block to you. The fact that you repeatedly equate married couples having sex and admitting it or liking it with immorality, wickedness and sin tells me you are really screwed up. I’m sorry about whatever has happened to you to make you hate God given intimacy so much that you label the acknowledgement of it “filth”.
You are right in one regard. Sex is screwed up in this country. Badly. The World has had total control over the image and ideas people have about sex for 100 years…certainly since the 1950′s. These concepts about sex have even filtered into the church. We have taught generations of kids that sex is bad. Not just wrong, but bad. When they get out of our little enclaves they find out that sex is fun. Most of the people they meet don’t suffer from all the things they were told happened by having sex. They find that they have been lied to all their lives.
We have failed because we have been prudes. I have heard preachers say that any sexual conduct that can not create a child is sin.
All because we are afraid that to admit that we LIKE sex is somehow unholy. Sex within the marriage covenant is a God given delight. The writer of Hebrews calls the acts done between married couples “undefiled”. To deny that there is a sexual component to the Song of Solomon is to be intentionally obtuse.
It’s because of all these horrible, sinful images and ideas the World preaches and the Church’s complete silence on the topic that have led to this generation of people who are completely screwed up about sex. They NEED teaching on the subject. They have no idea what is good and what is not. Should the Pastor counsel each couple individually on each and every question they have or should he preach it to the congregation and stop the cycle of pretending that sex, even with your spouse, is dirty and sinful?
Yes, it can be taken too far. However, the fact that people are calling a church that encourages MARRIED couples to have sex a “cult” is ample proof of how distorted our view of something God endorses has become.
“And I will be laughing as the world burns…”
I’m sure your unsaved family members appreciate the sentiment.
DD
Monk,
You’re right on target with this. I do believe sex is very important in a marriage but what’s more important is the emotional connection between the couple. And that’s the problem with most marriage’s today. A lot of couple’s relationships were formed from their sexual bond instead of an emotional one. And once the sex life slows down they realize they don’t really know each other and are not connected. So what Ed Young is telling us is to get back in the bedroom and everything will work it self out, or if you’re single find someone your sexually compatible with before you get married. Well of course that’s the wrong answer. If these couple’s would work on their intimacy outside the bedroom the marriage and sex life would greatly improve. Sex is just part of the expressions of the love and commitment that should already be there….Chris
Kyle,
First, I want you to know I wasn’t directing my comment to anyone in particular. If you felt singled out that was not my intention. Secondly, it is OUR job to uphold the purity of God’s kingdom. You are not to be a lone ranger. We are a Body not a stand alone hero. Thirdly, I doubt very much that Ed went to CNN. I imagine they came to him. Since that is probably the case, he had to make a decision. Maybe it was right. Maybe it was wrong, but either way he made a decision to try and present his side. Don’t we all try to present our side when we have the chance? Lastly, Jesus’ anger had a point and a lesson to teach. Does yours?
Chris
Kyle, I’m not sure comments like “I could blow something up” have any place in this discussion.
Michael, I am surprised you have let the comment stand, albeit that perhaps the comment was hyperbole – it’s still an extreme sentiment.
I actually think sex needs to be talked about in Churches… although not always from the pulpit.
The reason is as I once heard is … Sex is powerful in both negative and positive ways in todays world. We need to tranform our sinful sex (false intimacy) into real intimacy.
Intimacy with Christ and intimacy with our spouses…. Spiritual and emotional intimacy which will lead to physical intimacy in Gods provisions for man.
I think Churches have lost the romance of Christ to his bride in order to be “religious” and overbearing… ie Power over others (mans method) as opposed to power under( Christs method).
My .02c worth,
JS
C B Bowers,
“If you’re curious”….
Nobody was. But your comment magnifies the problem that Ed Young embodies: Nobody was curious about your sex life.
Should we be?
A pastor is nobody special – he’s a guy we have tell us stuff about the Bible. Ideally, everybody can do that.
Is this “openness” a good thing? Is this something we should be curious about with one another, as a Christian Community (TM)? I have no problem with it outside of church, but I’m not so sure I buy into all this holy frankness – especially when, as Michael pointed out, it’s largely going to function as a membership drive gimmick.
I don’t endorse his methods …
But from what I understand from Chris and CB’s comments, his heart was in the right place with the sermon series (leaving lust behind and adopting a God-honoring view of sex). I think an unashamed biblical view of sex is a wonderful and much-needed message for the church.
I haven’t listened to the sermons, nor have I ever attended the church or done much research into it. So I can’t make a fully-educated judgment. Here’s an honest, humble question: How many of the above angry commenters have listened to the sermons or done their homework on Fellowship before passing their judgments?
And for the record, I agree that problems with intimacy should be looked at with a wider scope than sex, but, again, it seemed that’s what the sermon series was about.
Joel Hunter wrote: “____ Since Pastor Ed’s topic is more likely to get many unchurched people into church where they will get saved….”
——–What next? I can just see it; the stripper for Christ who appeared on Donuhue years ago. Oops, might need a new stipper though as the old one may be 6 ft. under by now.
——–Joel, you can scream at this statement, but you can’t disprove it. I doubt very much if ANYONE will “get saved” because of Ed’s sex sermons. If unbelievers showed up to hear that sermon, I believe they were moved by their lust, not by the Holy Spirit.
fishon
My opinion is openness needs to be ALWAYS be fostered in Churches …. although I am sure I am using open differently from you …
.
Anyhow its all about Christ and His Bride the Church.
Song of Songs does it make the idea of physical and spiritual intimacy a holy conversation? Thats a question not an answer….
.
I am totally unappreciated in my time…
Sex sells. Look at us here. 75 posts and climbing. “London Presbytry” or whatever received 3 comments. Examine thyself. You want to pack a church do “Song of Solomon ” The rock opera, original lyrics.
Sir,
As the pastor of his church, Rev. Young is most responsible to God for what he preaches and how he serves.
For me, as I have seen some of the videos (from fellowship church and CNN) and have listened to other podcasts from pastors like Mark Driscoll on the issue of sex, I am impressed most with the general lack of dignity that characterizes these presentations and discussions (Titus 2.1-8). As a pastor, I must be careful not to throw pearls before swine. Neither should I profane what is holy to tickle the ears in accordance with the desires of the secular culture (2 Timothy 4.3-5).
Thank you for the post and the opportunity to participate.
Yours,
Lee
Hmmmmm …. I have a deep sympathy with and have seriously enjoyed (though without spraying my oatmeal at the table) three very diiferent threads of the dialogue here:
1) Those who think this Ed Young Jr. guy is just NUTS (gee willikers the puns are impossible to avoid here), that he represents a visions that has absolutely nothing to do with the gospel of Christ and that the proper response to this is anger.
2) Those who think those who make claims like #1 are way too judgmental and need to take a look in the mirror.
3) Those who find this a perfect opportunity to really make hay with all kinds of satire, inuendo and Woody Allen-esque sex jokes. (Speaking of which, this really should be the context for the next Woody Allen film … or perhaps the Coen brothers.)
But now, a serious, serious question that I think goes the heart of the whole project of this site–which is iMonk’s “dispatches from a post evangelical wilderness”:
What is the AIM, with respect to the church, of engaging in any of the above? (And I AM assuming there really COULD BE one … this is NOT a rhetorical question.)
Can post-Evangelicalism come out of the wilderness? Or will ‘post Evangelical’ (for however long it lasts and that won’t be long if it doesn’t engage in culture forming activity) always be an identity modeled on the therapy session? Can post-Evangelicals become something more than recovering Evangelicals in therapy with each other?
iMonk, what if the answer to that question entirely depended upon how you addressed the four concerns you have raised?
Sex sells. Look at us here. 75 posts and climbing. — Willoh
Willoh, the only thing that makes a Christian blog’s comment thread explode faster than “Sex sells” is a Creation-vs-Evolution fight or an End Time Prophecy knock-down-drag-out. Both of which are very popular these days.
Those who find this a perfect opportunity to really make hay with all kinds of satire, inuendo and Woody Allen-esque sex jokes. — Myrrdin
Well, when the “Grinning Ed” sermon that set IMonk off and started this thread hands you such a perfect lead-in and straight line…
And I think IMonk still has one “Evangelical Concerns” still to go: The conclusion to the other four.
DD — Kyle reminds me all too much of an infamous Usenet troll on alt.fan.furry around a decade ago. I very much doubt Mike Hirtes got religion and changed his handle to “Kyle”, but the rant style and Abominable Fancy gloating is just so similar.
P.S. Has anybody else noticed that both Grinning Ed’s and Blinky Osteen’s wives look like they came from Central Casting? As in “stock HAWT trophy wife” (except Osteen got the “Stepford Wives” parody version)?
I watched the youtubecom video of the CNN coverage and honestly think most of you are just showing why so many people Christian or otherwise are happy to hear that God is not offended by married people enjoying sex together.
Yeah, the whole 7 days thing and Driscoll’s everybody’s the same in their appetites and needs attitude is wrong, but most people rightfully think that Christians are sexually repressed prudes.
Mr. Young apparently was not just saying that it is ALL just about pleasure, but if you don’t drag all of your insecurities and Victorian prudishness into your reading the Song of Solomon, you would be hard pressed to find any example of love being expressed that was not erotic in nature.
The fact that someone cannot talk about married sex being fun without having an obligation to always and every time bring in the bonding aspect or the potential perils makes me wonder how some people suffer their ways through the scriptures, which ofter only show one side of the coin in a particular passage.
Mr. Young should be grinning. Sex was son fun for Solomon that he burst into song and then called it “The Song Of Songs”.
Many people disregard Christianity as even an option because of stigmas of what God expects rather than what He actually does. A public discussion of the pleasures of sex eliminates one of those stigmas. Both Driscoll and Young could have done better jobs, but they are doing a better job than most preachers that I have heard (mostly silence really) on the subject.
George C:
>Many people disregard Christianity as even an option because of stigmas of what God expects rather than what He actually does. A public discussion of the pleasures of sex eliminates one of those stigmas.
Please cite one person who has reconsidered Christianity because of a seeker sermon on how Christians think its good to have sex.
You made the claim. I’d like to be convinced.
peace
MS
Those of you who say sex needs to be talked about in church….
What church do you have in mind that is on record as being against marital sex?
Please be specific.
peace
MS
CB Sowers:
I’m about to edit your comment.
You act as if Fellowship church and all they’ve ever done has been criticized when one stupid idea was criticized.
You take a post about talking too much about sex and make me the opponent of all that’s good about a church.
Ridiculous. Actually worse than ridiculous.
MS
Maybe, and I know that this is a crazy thought, teaching couples about sex is an important part of discipleship. Or perhaps it would be better just to take out all of the times that the Bible is fairly blunt about sex and sexuality, because, evidently those parts aren’t spiritual enough. If we are supposed to be so “hush-hush” about sex, maybe the Bible should take a cue from us and keep it quiet. Or maybe preachers who claim to believe and teach what the Bible teaches should spend a little more time on the topic.
Phil_style:
I have a job. I do not sit in front of this computer. I just saw the comment.
If you are going to dawg me about comment moderation, please get the basic facts straight. DO you think I agree with every comment that goes through while I’m at work?
MS
Kyle’s comments are [Mostly] removed. Kyle, you need to get some professional help buddy.
Here’s some of my favorite logic from blog commenters:
“The entire series is called “Loving your Neighbor.” Now when Roger shot the dog on stage, it was all part of a point about not being mean to your neighbor, but being Christlike. If you know his heart and what the whole series is about the dog shooting isn’t that big a deal.”
DO you people hear yourselves?
MS
Whats wrong with Ed Young Jr? He’s just following in a long line of screwed up pastors. Look at his dad. Big mega church with a million campuses. Jr. will never be dad…unless….
i don’t like it when a public forum gets comments deleted with a little snip like “get professional help buddy”
WTF
Read a bible. Pray for yourself and then those who you get your grummy fingers on. If anyone needs help here…its big brother running this blog.
Ok, I’m confused.
Are you (you being those commenting here) against teaching sex and sexuality in church?
If so, why?
Didn’t God create those as both good things to be held up as sacred?
If people don’t hear it in church or from Christian speakers, then the only teaching coming across is from the world. As a 17 year old girl, the message I got was, “lose your virginity ASAP, it’s a burden, have one night stands, and in marriage use sex as a way to manipulate your husband.” Needless to say, I was thrilled to come across Theology of the Body.
I am honestly scared to think of what would have become of me had I not run across this book and other Christian teachings on sexuality.
Am I just reading this board wrong?
imonk,
I made the claim that a open discussion about the pleasures of sex and God’s encouragement towards us enjoying them eliminates the stigma.
I do not personally know anyone who has made positive steps towards honestly examining Christianity solely on the eliminating of just this one stigma, but if we are going to believe anything that unbelievers say we would have to admit that the stigma of being prudes has certainly been a factor in unbelievers dismissing us altogether. Those people i have met.
Ultimately the point should be to represent God, Christianity, and scripture as faithfully as we can and eliminate, to whatever degree we can, false views of them.
I personally don’t believe in the seeker format at all. I think that all the church gathered should be focus on those who at least claim to be believers, but for the health of the Church itself I think it is necessary to talk openly about sex both from the pulpit and in conversation and that the conversation should be more than just the prohibitions.
We are exhorted to enjoy the pleasure of sex with our spouses and over all that is just never brought up. Driscoll and Young are and I think that is a good thing.
The church that I am presently part of did a pretty good job when going through 1 Corinthians of dealing with the whole issue you are free to check it out here:http://l2today.com/ICorinthians.html
Oh my…..
No one is against teaching the Christian sexual ethic. What church DOESN’T Teach it.
But can’t you see the world of difference between teaching it and HAVING A SEVEN DAY SEX CHALLENGE??
I’ve taught about sex for decades. SO have most decent preachers and communicators.
But have I SIT MY WIFE UP ON STAGE TO TALK WITH ME ABOUT OUR SEX LIFE WHILE SITTING ON A BED???
Isn’t the difference obvious?
MS
Thanks for the clarification, I just wanted to make sure. I also thought that he should keep his sex life private, it was very demeaning to his wife.
Nicole,
It’s not that teaching about sex is wrong, as it is a very important part of life which the Church does need to pastorally address. It’s the methods Ed Young chose which are bizare and inappropriate.
I think my favorite parts of the comment thread are 1) people don’t need to hear every week that they need Jesus (of course, translated into fire and brimstone type language) and defending this kind of sermon series by saying “Jesus didn’t have time for a teaching on this because his mission was narrow and time sensitive.” Kind of like the mission of today’s preachers!
And there’s nothing wrong with teaching about sex in the church. We’re taking our young ‘uns through a program in the Spring so that they will have a healthy and godly view of how great and awesome sex is between a husband and wife. That’s called discipleship and we have a time and place for that outside the proclamation of the Gospel on Sunday mornings.
Joel, I appreciate you.
GOod summary of what did, has, and will happen on this comment thread.
I am curious what exactly it is that Mr. Young did wrong?
I think the 7 day idea is rather silly, but I think a ton of what different churches do is silly.
Methodology is one thing. Writing him off as if he is a know it all or some kind of perv is another.
Is he being lewd? Seems to me that he is not nearly as blunt as the scriptures.
Is he really using sex as a bait to get people in the church or has the church’s neglect of the subject (except for the prohibitions) raised the attention of the news media and drawn all this attention?
Is there some info besides the CNN coverage that everyone seen and are basing their comments on?
OK. This thread is about to end.
If you want to talk about the 7 Day Sex Challenge, great.
But I will not post anything else that implies critics of the 7 Day Sex Challenge are anti Young, anti Fellowship Church, anti teaching on sex and so on.
And if you want to call me names, just send it to my email, because its not showing up here.
Get it on topic or this thread is closed.