Comments on: Credible Christianity for the Cultural Atheist http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Sensus Divinitatis News http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-500386 Sensus Divinitatis News Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:10:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-500386 <strong>Credible Christianity for the Cultural Atheist...</strong> This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News.... Credible Christianity for the Cultural Atheist…

This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News….

]]> By: Michael The Haggard http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-479370 Michael The Haggard Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:31:01 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-479370 e2c; Notice that I speak of daily practice and popular culture... not the specifics of the philosophies. A thinker may know these things... but common man in his daily living and ethics? Come visit. Cheating in not only common, but nearly encouraged. Confucius and Laozi would not be impressed with today's Taiwan. Gods are there to beg gifts from and nothing, NOTHING more. That is as deep as the faith gets here... and I am talking even about some really "devout" worshipers. But not scholars or monks. How are scholars and monks viewed by most people? As people who don't get it... they are too pie-in-the sky and divided from the real world. e2c; Notice that I speak of daily practice and popular culture… not the specifics of the philosophies. A thinker may know these things… but common man in his daily living and ethics? Come visit. Cheating in not only common, but nearly encouraged. Confucius and Laozi would not be impressed with today’s Taiwan. Gods are there to beg gifts from and nothing, NOTHING more. That is as deep as the faith gets here… and I am talking even about some really “devout” worshipers. But not scholars or monks. How are scholars and monks viewed by most people? As people who don’t get it… they are too pie-in-the sky and divided from the real world.

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-474454 e2c Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:34:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-474454 <b>Michael the Haggard</b>, that's one side of the story... not the whole picture (leaving out other important parts of Confuciansm and Taoism, like ethics). So, accurate as far as it goes, but missing some essential pieces. Cheers! Michael the Haggard, that’s one side of the story… not the whole picture (leaving out other important parts of Confuciansm and Taoism, like ethics). So, accurate as far as it goes, but missing some essential pieces.

Cheers!

]]> By: Ron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473939 Ron Wed, 03 Jun 2009 05:07:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473939 I would love to hear some comments from members of China's underground Christian community. What elements of the Gospel most attracted them? Why were they willing to go against the flow of their society -- facing persecution, imprisonment, or even death -- to follow Christ? What is the elemental nature of their faith? Is it rationally based? Is it primarily experiential? How do they present the Gospel to their countrymen? How do they view themselves within the context of a decidedly nonChristian society? How do they view themselves in the context of global Christianity and its numerous divisions? I'm just curious. So, if there are any native Chinese Christians tapping in on iMonk, I (for one) would love to hear from you. I would love to hear some comments from members of China’s underground Christian community. What elements of the Gospel most attracted them? Why were they willing to go against the flow of their society — facing persecution, imprisonment, or even death — to follow Christ? What is the elemental nature of their faith? Is it rationally based? Is it primarily experiential? How do they present the Gospel to their countrymen? How do they view themselves within the context of a decidedly nonChristian society? How do they view themselves in the context of global Christianity and its numerous divisions?
I’m just curious. So, if there are any native Chinese Christians tapping in on iMonk, I (for one) would love to hear from you.

]]> By: Michael The Haggard http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473737 Michael The Haggard Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:57:12 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473737 The Asian view of god(s) is that they are unable to make promises or covenants because of conflicting gods' interests and because of a god's inability to overcome fate. I speak now of daily practice, not philosophy or theology from Asian religious leaders. (by the way, despite their words, even the religious leaders live their faith in the following way) As I see people here in Taiwan Bie-Bie to idols, what they are asking for from the gods is "Luck" - imagine a liquid that you could fill into a container. They are asking to receive more of this luck. The more they have, the more likely it is that good things (like money) will happen. In order to gain this luck, they will worship many gods over many elements of life to cover all bases. As dramas in the west are all about the hard working hero overcomes hardship, the dramas here are all about the low guy who lucks out by meeting the rich man or finding the pot of gold. Money, wealth, health and power are the signs of luck. Every temple here has the "Fates" on top and over the idol inside. Those fates are loosely translated Health, Longevity, Wisdom, Wealth, and so on. It is not greed, initially, that causes the Asian to focus on money as the symbol of god(s) favor. But it certainly leads to a materialism that is almost more destructive than that found in the west. Here in Taiwan where people lead a more consumer driven life of freedom and capitalism than in China, that "faith" has definitely turned to greed. My college students are claiming they will NEVER get married as that would take money and power away from their life. Indeed, the current birth and marriage rates indicate they are dedicated to that pledge. So, as my wife and I lead a humble life not concerned with money, but concerned with friendship, forgiveness, nurturing and commitment, we draw amazing interest in Christ as He has called is to a life that is truly alien to their view of god(s). The mainland Chinese may be atheists, but they have this same 3000 year old philosophy just jaded by communist poverty. The Asian view of god(s) is that they are unable to make promises or covenants because of conflicting gods’ interests and because of a god’s inability to overcome fate. I speak now of daily practice, not philosophy or theology from Asian religious leaders. (by the way, despite their words, even the religious leaders live their faith in the following way) As I see people here in Taiwan Bie-Bie to idols, what they are asking for from the gods is “Luck” – imagine a liquid that you could fill into a container. They are asking to receive more of this luck. The more they have, the more likely it is that good things (like money) will happen. In order to gain this luck, they will worship many gods over many elements of life to cover all bases. As dramas in the west are all about the hard working hero overcomes hardship, the dramas here are all about the low guy who lucks out by meeting the rich man or finding the pot of gold. Money, wealth, health and power are the signs of luck. Every temple here has the “Fates” on top and over the idol inside. Those fates are loosely translated Health, Longevity, Wisdom, Wealth, and so on. It is not greed, initially, that causes the Asian to focus on money as the symbol of god(s) favor. But it certainly leads to a materialism that is almost more destructive than that found in the west. Here in Taiwan where people lead a more consumer driven life of freedom and capitalism than in China, that “faith” has definitely turned to greed. My college students are claiming they will NEVER get married as that would take money and power away from their life. Indeed, the current birth and marriage rates indicate they are dedicated to that pledge. So, as my wife and I lead a humble life not concerned with money, but concerned with friendship, forgiveness, nurturing and commitment, we draw amazing interest in Christ as He has called is to a life that is truly alien to their view of god(s). The mainland Chinese may be atheists, but they have this same 3000 year old philosophy just jaded by communist poverty.

]]> By: Dave N. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473583 Dave N. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:21:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473583 Yes. I guess what I was inferring was that this type of thinking had disastrous consequences for the world in the 20th cen. Yes. I guess what I was inferring was that this type of thinking had disastrous consequences for the world in the 20th cen.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473576 iMonk Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:16:05 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473576 I dealt with that in the original article: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/an-american-jesus-for-chinese-students I dealt with that in the original article:

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/an-american-jesus-for-chinese-students

]]> By: Dave N. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473574 Dave N. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:11:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473574 No, I would agree that "greedy" doesn't fit. It's about reinforcing honor for the sake of country/culture and family. Actually the scarier part for me is that sometimes their ideas seem very similar to those expressed by 19th cen. Western anthropologists--that certain cultures are somehow inherently superior. No, I would agree that “greedy” doesn’t fit. It’s about reinforcing honor for the sake of country/culture and family.

Actually the scarier part for me is that sometimes their ideas seem very similar to those expressed by 19th cen. Western anthropologists–that certain cultures are somehow inherently superior.

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473570 e2c Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:03:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473570 Further, both Confucianism and Taoism show great reverence and respect for scholars and teachers. My guess is that your students might also see you as self-sacrificing, and perhaps as someone with a lot of filial piety... all very highly valued in Chinese culture; something that even the Cultural Revolution failed to wipe out. Further, both Confucianism and Taoism show great reverence and respect for scholars and teachers. My guess is that your students might also see you as self-sacrificing, and perhaps as someone with a lot of filial piety… all very highly valued in Chinese culture; something that even the Cultural Revolution failed to wipe out.

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist/comment-page-1#comment-473569 e2c Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:01:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/credible-christianity-for-the-cultural-atheist#comment-473569 I think some of what you're seeing comes from the cultural milieu - of Confucianist and Taoist thought and ethic, *not* from "atheism." Your students aren't growing up in a vacuum - or in a society that really is "atheist." I think the distinctions are very important here, and in all other cross-cultural interactions. I think some of what you’re seeing comes from the cultural milieu – of Confucianist and Taoist thought and ethic, *not* from “atheism.” Your students aren’t growing up in a vacuum – or in a society that really is “atheist.”

I think the distinctions are very important here, and in all other cross-cultural interactions.

]]>