November 18, 2009 by iMonk
1. Why did you start using the term “post-evangelical?” Aren’t you aware of how that term is perceived in the discernment blogosphere?
This will seem hard to believe, but I simply wanted a way to say I was moving past evangelicalism to something else, but that something else wasn’t what would cause me to say “non-evangelical,” at least using the generally accepted understanding of evangelicals. I wasn’t in any way trying to identify with post-modernism or the emerging church. The Ancient-Future Evangelicalism of Robert Webber really described me, but that label was unclear to me at the time and I still see it as being more ambitious than I ever want to be with “post-evangelical.”
The discernment blogosphere use of the term is synonymous with “apostate liberal in sheep’s clothing.” I notice a graphic at teampyro that says something about tours of the post-evangelical wilderness. Well, my post-evangelicalism is a way of navigating through the evangelical wilderness with the resources of the broader, deeper, more ancient church. I think the discernment blogosphere is talking about Mclaren, Bell, etc. [Continue reading]
November 2, 2009 by iMonk
My interview with Bryan Cross continues with questions about how Protestants hear talk of unity, tensions in the Catholic Church and how Protestants and Catholics should view the Reformation.
2. Does Christian Unity mean “Protestants becoming Roman Catholics?”
In the Creed we refer to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. Those are the four marks of the Church. Unity as a mark of the Church refers to unity of faith, unity of sacraments, and unity of government. These three correspond to the three roles of prophet, priest, and king; all three roles came together in Christ, and remain together in His Church. Even if we share the same faith, and the same sacraments, until we are one in government we are still divided. [Continue reading]
October 20, 2009 by iMonk
UPDATE: Fr. Dwight Longnecker has a great analysis of what the new RCC/Anglican arrangement will mean and how it will work.
The 9 Marks blog is increasingly, uh…interesting….from a post-evangelical perspective.
Jonathan Leeman writes about the danger of seminary profs being disconnected from the local church, a point that I fully agree with based on scripture and my own experience in a Christian school. But when you are reading reformed Baptists, you never get a free lunch. Along with his thoughts about seminary professors and churchmanship, Leeman comments on what he heard at a recent conference at Gordon-Conwell.
Most of the speakers seemed only too happy to treat Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox as “brothers and sisters in the faith,” as easily as a Baptist might refer to a Presbyterian. Now, I trust that some RC and GOs are Christians, but such unqualified, unnuanced passing remarks effectively dismiss the Reformation and jeopardize souls. Don’t you realize the effect your passing comments have on sheep?
October 15, 2009 by iMonk
We’ve been talking the Evangelical/Protestant liturgy recently, so why not something to give us some background in an evangelical Anglican liturgy. I’ve been watching with great interest- OK, with undiluted envy- the growth of one of the new Anglican congregations in the southeast, St.Peter’s Anglican in Tallahassee, Florida. If you aren’t getting their podcasts, you are really missing a positive, exciting example of why ACNA churches are going to do some amazing things. (If you can, listen to the wonderful 4th anniversary sermon 10/11/09, Blessed to be A Blessing.) They have big plans.
A growing Anglican church has a lot of evangelicals to educate in the basics of liturgy. Rev. Eric Dudley is a wonderful preacher and a fine teacher. In this presentation, he takes an hour to guide you through the basics of Anglican liturgy. Many of you in the IM audience will learn a tremendous amount about the larger, deeper tradition in the Anglican and Episcopal churches. Listen to his explanation of not being “sermon centered” and what is an “Anglican altar call.”
The Nuts and Bolts of Anglican Liturgy from St. Peter's Anglican Church on Vimeo.
September 30, 2009 by iMonk
Time to blog will be short or non-existent today, but this comment from
“Becky” in the “8 a.m. Mass” discussion is the best post of the day anyway. Thank you Becky, for framing what it means to be human in a beautiful and helpful way. She starts out quoting two of us, then hits the ball out of the park herself.
Jeff: “More experienced, mature Christians who should be teaching the young about and sharing with them their great Christian heritage are instead asked to ‘get with it’ or ‘get out.’” [Continue reading]
September 20, 2009 by iMonk
Dear Well-Meaning Non-Evangelical Friend,
Please sit down, have a cup of tea or coffee…and listen.
I see that you’ve responded to some of us who are pilgrims in the evangelical community and who are on a journey within and perhaps beyond evangelicalism. You’ve offered up some “help” in the form of advice, comments, explanations and so forth.
If possible, I’d like to encourage you to consider a few matters that could prove useful to our shared ultimate goal of knowing the Trinitarian God and following Jesus.
1. It’s possible you may be able to claim a few of us for your particular church by arguing with us over the specifics of doctrine. There are some among us who are in the mood to be convinced. But you are making a mistake, in my view, in regard to most of us with this approach. Your assumption that we need to be battered with the clubs of better logic and more knowledge is not the pleasant experience you apparently remember it to be. Let us have a process that operates under our terms and with our perception of the leadership of the Holy Spirit. If this is an episode of Bounty Hunter, tell us. [Continue reading]
September 15, 2009 by iMonk
Let me begin by saying that I did not receive a review copy of The Lutheran Study Bible, though I probably could have. Like the ESV Study Bible, I bought my own copy from the publisher. I’m open to bribes, kickbacks and rental, but in this instance, it didn’t happen.
Concordia Publishing has now completed what I think is a rather extraordinary collection of books for those interested in historic, orthodox Lutheran spirituality: The Reader’s Edition of the Lutheran Confessions, The Treasury of Daily Prayer, The Lutheran Service Book (I’d love to have someone donate ten of these to our ministry) and now The Lutheran Study Bible. I know of no other tradition that has accomplished anything remotely like this in such a usable form and in a way that can introduce anyone- clergy or layperson- to the riches of the Lutheran version of the Reformation and the Lutheran approach to spirituality.
It is ironic then, that I have to say at the outset that outside of existing Lutheranism, it’s doubtful that large numbers of evangelicals will ever seen these resources without asking for them on special order. I am sure that large bookstores will have the occasional volume here and there, but unless one is within Lutheranism, on a Lutheran campus, visits a Concordia store, listens to Lutheran radio or friendly confessional internet programming, these resources will never be known. [Continue reading]
August 29, 2009 by iMonk
I received two letters this week from friends/readers asking for input and advice on relating to atheists in their workplace/families. It brought to mind a number of things I’ve been wanting to say about evangelicals and their take on atheism.
When I was growing up in a fundamentalist Baptist church, the face of atheism was Madalyn Murray O’Hair. I knew three things about O’Hair: she had taken prayer and the Bible out of our public schools, she was trying to get religious programs off of television and she was a weirdo.
For years, O’Hair provided the face of atheism to America: an angry, ranting, God-hating, bitter old woman who wanted to force her bitterness on the rest of the country. The way to defeat O’Hair was simple: Christians needed to sign a lot of petitions and vote the right way when elections came around.
It was safe to say that few people wanted to be like Mrs. O’Hair, no matter what their case against God and religion happened to be. [Continue reading]
August 8, 2009 by iMonk
UPDATE: Ryan Cordle hits a home run in his response to this piece.
The discussion about the atheist’s report of attending a Planetshaker’s worship experience could be repeated a thousand times a week here at IM, and has been in various forms down through the 8 year history of this site.
Our Irish Catholic friend Martha, not being familiar with American evangelicals, had an epiphany in the middle of the discussion that’s worth reprinting:
Now see, here is the part that makes my head spin.And I don’t want to sound like a proselytizing Catholic who’s criticizing the non-Catholics, because that’s not my intent, and we’re just as bad in the other direction.
But I did have a real moment of cognitive dissonance (fancy term, heh?) when I tumbled to it that by “worship leader”, people meant the person in charge of the music.
I was going “But…but.. the pastor? minister? whatever you call the guy on the altar? okay, you don’t call it an altar, probably, but… but…”
And that’s the head-spinning bit for me. Prayer isn’t worship, listening to the Scriptures isn’t worship, the service of the Lord’s Supper/Communion isn’t worship.
Worship means singing along (or more like, reading some of these posts, sitting and listening) to sub-rock songs. Worship means having a band (an actual band, with drums and guitars) playing and a soloist warbling.
That’s worship? Or a rock concert for the formerly hip and the non-hip (amongst whom I’d include myself, so not sneering)?
Seriously, as an interested, fascinated, and rather frightened outsider, when did “worship = watered-down secular music” become the equation?
July 26, 2009 by iMonk
UPDATE: Pr. Cwirla has a follow-up post on worship at Higher Things.
I recently became aware of a youth ministry movement in the Lutheran Church: Missouri Synod called “Higher Things.” I was intrigued on several counts.
HT takes the best of the Lutheran tradition and makes it the substance of student conferences. Rather than hear what they would never hear at church, HT gives students the best of what they do hear at church, done with excellence.
No “big names” do the conferences. Gifted communicators who are all in local church ministry as pastors, etc.
There’s a distinctive denominational focus. Like that or not, the goal is the make better Lutheran Christians, not students who will abandon ship to find what they heard at the conference.
One of the most exciting concepts for me was the idea of a “spirituality toolbox,” made up of scripture, the Small Catechism (and the Confessions) and the Lutheran Hymnal. What would be involved in a “spirituality toolbox” in your tradition or mine? Is such a thing even possible?
Is HT an example of what could happen if generic evangelicalism had a more confessional identity and a sense of its own tradition? Is this one of the directions in youth ministry that we should consider if we want to actually prepare young leaders for our churches, rather than provide more reasons for students to abandon evangelicalism? [Continue reading]
July 24, 2009 by iMonk
I’m going to comment on three documents, and I don’t want to reproduce them here. All are available online. One is “A Post-Evangelical Manifesto” and can be found at Next Wave Magazine’s web site. It is written by Raffi Shahinian.
Another is “The Jesus Manifesto” written by Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola. It can be found at its own web site, though the font is ridiculously tiny, and you may want to download the pdf at the bottom of the page.
Finally, the “Call To An Ancient Future Evangelicalism,” which was one of the last things to come from the ministry of Robert Webber.
I answered the question “What is a post evangelical?” here and here. [Continue reading]
July 21, 2009 by iMonk
UPDATE: As usual, David Hayward brilliantly gets it right.
It’s been a long year
like a long sleepless night
Jacob wrestled the angel
but I’m too tired to fight
every Wednesday
for two years we’ve met
I’ve showed you all my anger,
my doubts and bitterness
there was no judgment in your eyes
just the silent peace of God
that felt so real in you
will you hold the light for me?
and I stay up late
because I cannot sleep
I don’t want to face the quiet
where its just God and me
I’m waiting for the gavel
handing me the sentence down
because I don’t believe forgiveness
or even repentance now
I want to feel redemption
flowing through my veins
I want to see with clear eyes
beyond lust and hate
I want the war to be over
and know the good guys won
and I want love to hold me
to know I’m not alone
standing around a willow weeping
we were praying in the backyard
in the chill of the night
the friendship light reminded me who we are
will you hold the light for me?
-Andrew Osenga, Hold the Light, from Caedmon’s Call, Overdressed. [Continue reading]
July 14, 2009 by iMonk
This was going in at the end of a chapter on the Christian and the Bible that I’ve been working on yesterday and today, but it fell out when I changed directions. It may appear in some form in later chapters more intentionally about the faith community. Or maybe not.
Please know: I am speaking to “leavers” in much of this book, i.e. people who have left or are leaving the church. If your orientation is totally “unquestioned loyalty to whatever my church says or does” an you’ve never considered leaving, I’m definitely on a different page.
This topic is giving those outside of the church who still relate to scripture a positive way to think about reapproaching the church on this issue.
What should be the relationship between the Christian and the church when it comes to the Bible? Here’s a simple saying that’s helped me understand the balance: We should “check in” with the church, but not necessarily “buy in” to everything the church is saying about the Bible. [Continue reading]
June 24, 2009 by iMonk
In reflecting on all that has transpired since leaving the Episcopal Church the Rev. David Miller, rector of the parish, wrote the following:“This press release finds the St. John’s church family preparing to enter a whole new stage of our life together. We stand ready to leave the familiar and historic surroundings of the building at 5th and C, a building that has been the church home to my family since our arrival in Petaluma in 1998; and a building that has been home to many of our members for much, much longer. Many memories and emotions arise as we say goodbye.”
Fr. Miller continues, “However, as difficult as leaving is, two summary statements stand out as defining of the spirit in which we move to our new quarters. First is the recognition that this is not about the property but about the Gospel and the Word of God that we have been charged to uphold and defend. We did not leave the Episcopal Church to keep the property; we left to keep the Faith.
Second is the affirmation that the church is not the building; the church is the people. We are blessed to have a spirit of unity as we move forward.” St. John’s Anglican takes the occasion of this press release to say a heart felt thank you to the many people of Petaluma who have prayed for and encouraged us in so many amazing ways throughout this process.
St. John’s Anglican Church is pleased to announce that beginning Sunday, July 5, 2009, we will be holding Sunday services at 8:30am and 10:30am at the Petaluma Community Center at Lucchesi Park. We welcome any from the community who do not now have a church home or would like to support us on this occasion, to come and worship with us.
New worship location: St. John’s Anglican Church. Meeting at: Petaluma Community Center (Lucchesi Park)
320 N. McDowell Blvd.
Petaluma, CA 94954
(707) 283-1111Service times: 8:30 a.m. (traditional) and 10:30 a.m. (contemporary)
Administrative office and mailing address: 55 Maria Dr., Ste. 837, Petaluma, CA 94954
June 21, 2009 by iMonk
I’ve been a supporter of David Sessions’ outstanding webmag “Patrol Magazine” from the beginning. We need to do more linkage from over there, because he’s doing outstanding journalism.
David asked me to write some perspective on the current Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Louisville, Kentucky. If you don’t know much about the current issues facing the Southern Baptist Convention, this should give you a decent overview of what’s going on this week. Apparently “Coming Evangelical Collapse” has already been quoted.
