COMMENTS CLOSED

My sincere thanks to Bryan Cross and all the commenters in this discussion. The majority of our discussion has been constructive and helpful. Of course, there are deep feelings at work in these issues and some commenters reflect various levels of understanding other traditions and various levels of being able to communicate without rancor.

This final post deals with three issues causing continuing disagreement: Marian devotion, the doctrine of purgatory and the nature of the Catholic Eucharist.

10. Most Protestants would see three major impediments to reunion: Tradition in relation to scripture, the Papacy and the doctrine of justification by faith alone. Laying these aside, give me a quick assessment of three other issues that may be less intractable:

1) Marian devotion [Continue reading]

My continuing interview with Bryan Cross now covers something very important: the Second Vatican Council and its implications for Protestant-Catholic relations.

9. What should every Protestant know about Vatican II?

The Second Vatican Council took place from 1963-1965, and was the twenty-first ecumenical council, following the First Vatican Council in 1869-70. Vatican II produced sixteen documents; among the most well-known are:

Sacrosanctum concilium, Sacred Liturgy, 1963.
Lumen Gentium, On the Church, 1964.
Unitatis Redintegratio, Ecumenism, 1964.
Dei Verbum, Dogmatic Constitution On Divine Revelation, 1965.
Dignitatis Humanae, On Religious Freedom, 1965.
Gaudium et Spes, On the Church In the Modern World,1965. [Continue reading]

5. What is your assessment of Pope Benedict’s opening the doors of the church to disaffected Anglicans? Will this speed up the path into the priesthood for men in the Anglican ministry?

For a number of years now, thousands of Anglicans have been asking the Holy See to allow them to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church while preserving unique aspects of the Anglican tradition. One factor that held up that request was the possibility that the Anglican communion would move in a more traditional direction (and hence toward greater agreement with the Catholic Church). But when the vote at last year’s Lambeth Conference showed that Anglicans had chosen to accept female bishops, the Anglican communion showed itself to have chosen to move further toward Protestantism, and depart further from apostolic succession. Pope Benedict apparently decided that the present prospects for the reunion of Canterbury with Rome are such that they will not be significantly worsened by opening the doors to Anglicans who wish to preserve elements of their Anglican patrimony in full communion with the Holy See. Pope Benedict’s fundamental motivation here is just what he said in his first address as pope, “The current Successor [to John Paul II] assumes as his primary commitment that of working tirelessly towards the reconstitution of the full and visible unity of all Christ’s followers.” He is seeking to be a minister of Christ’s peace in the fulfilling of Christ’s prayer in John 17. [Continue reading]

My interview with Bryan Cross continues with questions about how Protestants hear talk of unity, tensions in the Catholic Church and how Protestants and Catholics should view the Reformation.

2. Does Christian Unity mean “Protestants becoming Roman Catholics?”

In the Creed we refer to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. Those are the four marks of the Church. Unity as a mark of the Church refers to unity of faith, unity of sacraments, and unity of government. These three correspond to the three roles of prophet, priest, and king; all three roles came together in Christ, and remain together in His Church. Even if we share the same faith, and the same sacraments, until we are one in government we are still divided. [Continue reading]

REMINDER: Commenters should remember that the future interview segments will cover many topics.

A few days ago I asked Catholic blogger and philosopher Bryan Cross to do an interview here at IM on the subject of Christian Unity. Bryan blogs at Principium Unitatis. Bryan is a prolific writer and was gracious to do the interview. He’s given me enough content for several posts, so I am going to divide the interview into three parts. In part one, Bryan will talk about his journey from Pentecostal to Calvinist to Anglican to Catholic. Then I’ll post his answer to my first question on his personal passion for Christian unity.

Bryan is a patient teacher and apologist. Obviously, many IM readers will disagree with parts of his presentation while others will applaud. Having given articulate Lutherans and Anglicans space this year, I want to give Bryan time to talk about his personal mission of promoting church unity and reunion in the Catholic Church.

Some of you may want to read Bryan’s response to the “All the Romery People” piece at Mockingbird.

Thanks for coming to Internet Monk.com for this interview, Bryan. Take a couple of paragraphs and tell us your basic story, what you are doing now and about your family.

Thanks Michael for the invitation. I’ve enjoyed reading Internet Monk.com for the last couple years. I’m grateful for the opportunity to contribute to it in this way. [Continue reading]

Imagine, for a moment, that I came to your typically conservative evangelical church and asked to visit with your young people, high school through young married couples. I want to ask them some questions.

-What do you think of the President?
-What is your position on abortion?
-What do you believe about the legalization of gay marriage?
-Are you in favor of any version of Federally controlled health care?
-What is your church’s definition of the inspiration and authority of scripture?
-What is a brief definition of the Trinity?
-How does your church’s beliefs differ from Roman Catholicism? [Continue reading]

We’ve been talking the Evangelical/Protestant liturgy recently, so why not something to give us some background in an evangelical Anglican liturgy. I’ve been watching with great interest- OK, with undiluted envy- the growth of one of the new Anglican congregations in the southeast, St.Peter’s Anglican in Tallahassee, Florida. If you aren’t getting their podcasts, you are really missing a positive, exciting example of why ACNA churches are going to do some amazing things. (If you can, listen to the wonderful 4th anniversary sermon 10/11/09, Blessed to be A Blessing.) They have big plans.

A growing Anglican church has a lot of evangelicals to educate in the basics of liturgy. Rev. Eric Dudley is a wonderful preacher and a fine teacher. In this presentation, he takes an hour to guide you through the basics of Anglican liturgy. Many of you in the IM audience will learn a tremendous amount about the larger, deeper tradition in the Anglican and Episcopal churches. Listen to his explanation of not being “sermon centered” and what is an “Anglican altar call.”

The Nuts and Bolts of Anglican Liturgy from St. Peter's Anglican Church on Vimeo.

PLEASE keep this discussion on topic. No Baptist bashing.

First, read Matt Schmucker’s short piece regarding his advice on “special needs” church members. (Note to commenters: be respectful of Matt, please. If you disagree, do so graciously.)

In 1983 I was finishing seminary and serving as youth minister at a church near the seminary and populated by mostly seminary students and their families. Among the non-seminarians was a single mother and her 15-year old son Bryan. Bryan was what some would call “special needs.” Severely autistic, Bryan gave no outward signs of communication. He lived in a self-contained world of a few repeated movements.

Bryan and his mother had been part of the church for years and were much loved. Bryan accompanied his mom to adult Bible study, worship and Wednesday fellowship meals. She gave him commands for everything. To any observer, it appeared that nothing much registered with Bryan and nothing came from him in any form of communication.

One day, Bryan’s mother came to see our pastor and asked that he baptize Bryan. While we could not see his faith in Christ, she could, and as his mother, she was asking that he be baptized and be included as a professing member of the congregation. [Continue reading]

I discovered last night that the large church I’d passed several times this week here on Sullivan’s Island was an Episcopal church with a 10 a.m. Wednesday Eucharist service. After checking the church’s web site, I noticed that one of the contributors at Mockingbird, John Zahl, was a pastoral associate at Holy Cross. IM readers know of my appreciation for what these Lutheranized Anglicans are doing, so I hoped that John would be leading this weekday service.

I was delighted to discover that I was right, and that Pr. Zahl was the minister preaching and leading the service. [Continue reading]

Time to blog will be short or non-existent today, but this comment from
“Becky” in the “8 a.m. Mass” discussion is the best post of the day anyway. Thank you Becky, for framing what it means to be human in a beautiful and helpful way. She starts out quoting two of us, then hits the ball out of the park herself.

Jeff: “More experienced, mature Christians who should be teaching the young about and sharing with them their great Christian heritage are instead asked to ‘get with it’ or ‘get out.’” [Continue reading]

From Ray Ortlund at Christ Is Deeper Still:

“My passion isn’t to build up my church. My passion is for God’s Kingdom.”

Ever heard someone say that? I have. It sounds large-hearted, but it’s wrong. It can even be destructive.

Suppose I said, “My passion isn’t to build up my marriage. My passion is for Marriage. I want the institution of Marriage to be revered again. I’ll work for that. I’ll pray for that. I’ll sacrifice for that. But don’t expect me to hunker down in the humble daily realities of building a great marriage with my wife Jani. I’m aiming at something grander.”

If I said that, would you think, “Wow, Ray is so committed”? Or would you wonder if I had lost my mind?

If you care about the Kingdom, be the kind of person who can be counted on in your own church. Join your church, pray for your church, tithe to your church, participate in your church every Sunday with wholehearted passion.

We build great churches the same way we build great marriages — real commitment that makes a positive difference every day.

Someone is saying “You’re going to disagree with probably the most respected, spiritually passionate guy in the Christian blogosphere? You really are out in left field knocking down the fence.” [Continue reading]

I’ve been thinking about this post quite a bit, and for the life of me I really can’t think of much to say than some of the obvious.

The evangelical worship service is the worship of the people of God. God acts, speaks invites and offers. God’s people respond in worship, service, ministry and mission. This is the character and content of worship as a gathered event and as a continuing influence. To make the evangelical worship service anything else is to misrepresent worship.

The congregation represents the human and cultural spectrum in which the church exists. To create a congregation that distorts the natural human and cultural context may provide an effective matrix for growth or other activities, but will have serious consequences for many aspects of church life where multi-generational and natural contexts are important. (A congregation of twenty-something skateboarders only is certainly possible, but will have issues regarding leadership and mission beyond that age and culture.) [Continue reading]

Intro, 1, 2.

If you are looking for a complete theology of the pastorate, sorry. I am going to talk about the relationship of leaders to the worship service itself, and a few related issues. The sermon is a separate subject. One point I am making is that ministers are not entirely preachers.

Someone has already asked if I am giving my own views or recommending what everyone should do. I’m speaking entirely from my own perspective on these matters. I’m well aware many disagree, and I’m neither looking for debate nor implying others must change.

For example, even though I will use the pronoun “he,” I believe women are called and gifted to be pastoral leaders, preachers and worship leaders. If that call and gift is recognized by a congregation, it can and should be exercised. I complete respect those who differ and I realize my view isn’t shared by many of my own peers.

The key to worship leadership is to lead as a servant of Jesus and of God’s people. Not to entertain, self-promote, distract or dominate, but to lead; to be a means by which worship’s direction is made clearer and the content of worship is communicated effectively so that a congregation can respond. [Continue reading]

Looking over recent comments and emails, it occured to me that many of you would benefit from the writing of Alastair Roberts- a former IM favorite blogger now semi-retired- who wrote some of the most helpful thoughts about the church I’ve ever read. In fact, I carry around the originals in my brief bag all the time. This past post of mine just surveys the excerpts. Follow the links to his blog, Adverseria and get the entire original post. Those of you looking for the “right church” will be greatly challenged and helped.

Let me begin by thanking God for Alastair Roberts, his clarity in writing and his heart for the Church and Gospel of Jesus.

Alastair has a post at Adversaria called “The Denominational Church” that is, in a phrase, magnificently helpful for me where I am right now. [Continue reading]

NOTE: Despite the fact that this post is law, you should still read it

I want to talk about a specific problem in preaching and teaching: the problem of preferring law over Gospel.

I consider the primary problem with preaching and teaching in my Southern Baptist tradition these days to be an obsession with (or addiction to?) preaching the “law.” To put it mildly, it’s brutal out there. In many churches and ministries, you’re getting clubbed into putty with the law and hearing slightly less Gospel than what you’d get in fifteen minutes of country music, all courtesy of a preacher who has no excuse not to know better.

I’m using the simple Lutheran “law/Gospel” division here: all of scripture is either what God commands/demands under penalty or what he promises/provides freely by grace. This is law and Gospel. “Do” or “Done.” Moses or Jesus. God the accountant older brother or God the Father of the Prodigal. Advice or announcement. Sinai or the cross. Threat or comfort. Blessing or curse. You do it or else. God did and praise.

If you get this, Luther said, you are a theologian even without the degree. So if you don’t know this, learn it, and if ou learn it, use it. Go to New Reformation Press and get you some Rod Rosenbladt or, if you’re up for it, the book by Walther. (Lutherans can make suggestions for the rest of us on this.) [Continue reading]