Comments on: Avoiding Death by Nostalgia: My Denomination (The SBC) Today

By: R. D.

R. D. — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:46:56 +0000

Monk,
Don’t know you from Uncle Adam. Have never heard you speak. I am not a part of the SBC. However, I have never read a better word concerning an organization than the one you wrote. I too am a part of a fellowship that is in the same “perfect storm”. Young men are leaving, tradition is triumphing over truth, and the conservative element has quieted and driven out any thought of moderate or liberal views. I have always believed that both sides need to have an equal voice. That is the challenge that best blesses and brings balance to any organization. This thing should be about unity, and not uniformity. You do not know me, but I will pray for you in your path. Please remember those outside of the SBC lines that may be battling in the same fog. For now, know that you blessed me with your thought process. Let evangelism live. Let Jesus Christ be lifted up. Let the world hear redemption’s song. RD

By: ChadR

ChadR — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:17:34 +0000

This was a very interesting column, especially since I was born, raised, and baptized as a SBC member but later switched to Reformed after becoming a Calvinist. Like another commentor mentioned, my parents identified themselves as “Southern Baptists” as much as they did “Christians.”

The problem the First Baptist Church in my home town is encountering is that its current members are dying off quickly — and literally — due to old age, and there are no young people around to take their places. As a result, it is now running probably half as many people in Sunday School as it did 20 years ago. The reason why there are no young people around is because they all move away to go to college (like I did), and few ever move back to the town as there are absolutely no career opportunities there. It is now a town of mostly aging grandparents and great-grandparents.

One wonders how large of a cummulative impact the declining “First Baptists” in small towns like this one is making on the denomination as a whole.

By: Mark

Mark — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:33:36 +0000

You need to check your stats on Mormons, they are in serious decline. Two years ago they only baptized 238,000 people worldwide. Of that number 98,000 were their own children. In articles by the Salt Lake Times a Mormon owned paper they predicted that in 20 to 30 years time Mormonism would be in such decline in Utah that it would not be the leading religion of the state. They are good at putting up a front for growth

By: Mark DeVine

Mark DeVine — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:51:24 +0000

An excellent post in my opinion.

And I am cautiously optimistic about the future of the SBC becasue I think such viewpoints are shared by many and becasue I think the inescapable reality of the shrinking denomination could and should result in a new teachability and openness to change that nothing else could possiblly precipitate.

For good or ill (and it can be both), where Southern Baptists are concerned, numerical growth covers a multitude of sins. As ACTS29 and other models of church prove effective, I have hope that the SBC will want to be part of such successful evangelism and church-planting efforts.

In my chapter “The Emerging Church: One Movement–Two Streams” in the forthcoming “Evangelicals Engaging Emergent” (Lifeway) I labor to interpret some of these evangelicalish/conservative and usually calvinistic groups to SBC types and the SBC types to them. I truly believe we need each other when we consider the great task that is ours.

By: Educator

Educator — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:25:04 +0000

A simple fyi to my critic: McCain didn’t say that he couldn’t use the internet, he said that he didn’t (others did it for him). He then explained that he was learning to do it himself. One assumes quite a bit by suggesting that he couldn’t because of his war injury, which left him unable to raise his arms above his shoulders. And if he states that he was learning it, the clear insinuation is that he can but hasn’t. To use the illustration, if he is blind, then why is he claiming that he can learn to read? That’s why I used this fact in his life to help make my case.
Those who seek leadership roles and have no hands-on experience of what drives the culture have a reduced chance at either realistically meeting the needs of that culture or even understanding the problems. They seem more like figureheads than real leaders. To restate my previous point: Who want’s a leader who cannot–or is unwilling to–handle the common tools of the culture? If a leader cannot, that’s one thing; if he is unwilling, that is quite another–which is my point about some of the leadership in the church.

Consequently, the election is over, isn’t it?

By: Hawk

Hawk — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:09:19 +0000

To paraphrase R.C. Sproul (and I’m not sure if he was quoting someone else): There are three great concepts: Beauty, Truth and Goodness. Episcopalians will sacrifice Truth and Goodness for Beauty, Presbyterians will sacrifice Beauty and Goodness for Truth, and Baptists will sacrifice Beauty and Truth for Goodness.

I have realized lately that many Christians and churches will sacrifice Beauty, Truth and Goodness for Tradition.

By: Robert

Robert — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:49:16 +0000

No doctrine, no denomination.

Mohler, etal understand this.

Its doctrine, doctrine, doctrine.

I wonder how more regenerate our denomination would be if the gospel was preached every Sunday (you know, that gospel that starts with the R word).

We need to repent of many many things: the slanderous, superficial, and sometimes silly way we treat the gospel as if it has no power at all and needs help from the most articulate, motivational, “up” music we can find etc.

I have found a new home theologically – I understand how and why I was saved – because I started seriously studying my Bible and stopped listening to the director of the dog and pony show.

Talk about tradition? Whatever happened to the Baptist Catechism? It got replaced with coloring books, videos, dancing and “Raise your hand if you love Jesus!”.

By: J

Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:33:31 +0000

iMonk,

I believe your post can be simply summed up in the truth that “doctrine doesn’t equal character.” And so, after experiencing the “conservative resurgence,” including my being a messenger at several of the conventions and seeing what was being done in the 1980’s by people who some (evidently still) consider heroes, I left “mother church,” the SBC.

Yes, truly whatever “glory” there was, surely did depart. “Ichabod” indeed!

God in His power was able to work what I experienced in the SBC for good in my life, and to set me free of many things. I’m very grateful.

I love now having fellowship with many different “kinds” of followers of Jesus who are concerned much more about exhibiting Jesus’ character than wearing a particular “label.”

And I love now living loved by the Father, beyond any kind of “ism,” including “evangelicalism”–and your “reformed-ism,” too. And THAT’s what I want to help other people with, too–to simply live loved by “. . . God who loved us, and gave Himself for us.”

If the SBC leaders–or the leaders of any other “evangelical” group–would work more on character than doctrine, tradition, programs and whatever else they feel they should work on, then people like I am might be inclined to listen to them again. But still not at the risk of tying millstones around our necks, or helping them to put millstones around the necks of others.

“Sir, we would like to see Jesus.”

By: Ky boy but not now

Ky boy but not now — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:31:06 +0000

“It reminds me of a news report just before the American election that stated McCain had just begun to learn how to use the internet. I knew at that moment that he would lose. Who want’s a leader who cannot–or is unwilling to–handle the common tools of the culture? Perhaps there’s a coorelation here?”

While I agree with much of your sentiments this was a cheap shot at McCain. And repeated by folks who were willing to use anything against him, twisted out of truth or not.

McCain has very limited motion left in his arms. And I think his hands. Remember those years in NV prison? Punishment many times meant tying his hands behind his back and suspending him in the air via his arms. His sholder and arm joints are permanently wreaked.

Saying he was just learning to use the internet is like saying a blind man has spend a long time learning to read and had been relying on their spouse, friends, and staff to read for/to them. Which is what McCain had been doing for years.

By: Educator

Educator — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 03:09:24 +0000

As a teacher and young minister, I must say that I’m glad to see others who are concerned about the same things as I. The high school kids that I teach watch things like the Discovery and History channels frequently–some even religiously (pun intended?). Christian teens do this, and so do their parents. On these stations, they see some episodes that are largely from a secular humanist perspective. The congregations these days are getting quite a bit of info from this perspective. With information at everyone’s fingertips on the internet, the church should seek to adapt, to change, to dig in on the real essentials of the faith and realize that in a progressive world that is changing at the speed of light, the church is still quite able to provide the answers.
That’s why I find Dr. Kelley’s suggestion to use the techniques that worked in the past to be utterly unhelpful. Such responses deflate the hope that the young SB’s have for the future and proves that many of the older generation may see that there truly is a problem, but really don’t understand it. It reminds me of a news report just before the American election that stated McCain had just begun to learn how to use the internet. I knew at that moment that he would lose. Who want’s a leader who cannot–or is unwilling to–handle the common tools of the culture? Perhaps there’s a coorelation here?

Thanks for a good article.