I’m not an economist, I don’t want to argue politics, and I probably had no business posting this. It’s the lack of TV. I have to make up my own punditry.
ABC’s 20/20 did a special on Appalachia this month, which caught my interest for three reasons:
1) They called me and asked me for some assistance. What they wanted (dramatic stories about young people), I couldn’t provide, but I was happy to be asked.
2) I’ve lived in Kentucky my whole life and in Clay County, one of America’s poorest areas, for going on 17 years. This is my home.
3) Part of the original special focused on a “sister” Christian ministry, The Christian Appalachian Project, where we have friends and with whom we do some cooperative donations.
Now ABC has done a brief follow-up in response to the accusations that the special ignored what is really going on in Appalachia of a positive nature and continued promoting the stereotypes that have become all too common in the rest of the country.
Our governor, Steve Breshears, pointed out that any urban area in the country has many of the same problems- and worse- that were pictured in the program, and the program ignored many positive changes and improvements.
In the follow up, ABC listed some of the solutions some are offering for Appalachia. They were…
“Federal stimulus money, philanthropy, green jobs, infrastructure, computers.”
I could entertain you for a while going through this list, but I’ll try to keep the snark to a minimum. A few short responses will have to do:
Federal stimulus money: If you want to see what government money will do to a culture, just come to Eastern Kentucky. The owner of a garage I used to patronize told me that he couldn’t pay his help as much as they would make on welfare and government benefits, so he had a very difficult time finding anyone to work for him. We have multi-million dollar federal projects everywhere: drug task forces, government buildings and my favorites, two federal prisons. Meanwhile, many counties are closing school facilities right and left and the ones that are open are lucky to have enough money for textbooks. The big score, of course, is a huge new high school combining as many local schools as possible into a massive PS so large you might have a good football team. (OK, there’s the snark. I’m sorry.)
Federal money comes in here by the truck full. It makes things different. It doesn’t fundamentally change people’s lives or the culture. In many cases, it makes people’s lives worse. The people working at the federal prison are not the people who are stuck in the downward spiral of this areas economic/cultural/spiritual dead end. The people who can’t work need government and community help, but the way government money is used here is frequently not in a way that changes the problems addressed in the program.
Philanthropy: See below. Fine, if tied to the right results.
Green Jobs: Employ Kermit? Oh….that kind of green. Well we do have a lot of trash to pick up, creeks to clean out, pollution to remove, etc. If you can tie this to improving the quality of life and actually creating private sector jobs, go right ahead. It is a damaged environment, but I don’t see permanent economic change in government created, short term jobs of any kind.
Now, the development of coal, clean or otherwise, is an issue that needs attention. I’m not educated enough to have an opinion, but the development of an environmentally stable coal industry is important to all of us who live here.
Infrastructure: Again, if you can build roads, bridges and sewers in such a way that local governments will do what they should do to get private sector jobs to locate here as a result, great. But if we’re just talking about what farm gets a new bridge over the creek, it’s relatively pointless. If you can convince a factory to locate here, go for it. But that’s local influence, and that’s where the problems lie. You live in some of these counties long enough, you have to wonder if local leaders really want factories, etc to come here.
Computers: Among other things, sure. That’s assuming our increasingly uneducated work force wants a data entry job. I know those jobs are there because some of my friends have them. But those are people who want a job, aren’t on drugs, don’t have to be in court, will come in every day on time, don’t want to be on welfare and so on. But whoever can get computer jobs in here should do it, just be sure it’s the private sector.
So Washington and Frankfort, here’s my suggestions for what you can do to help Appalachia.
1) Give a real tax break and other financial incentives to any industry hiring 20 people or more who comes to this area and stays for five years.
2) Get out of the education business and get the private business sector into it. Make Appalachia a showplace for school systems run by private, not public, corporations. I’d love to see a school system run by Wal-Mart or UPS. End the competition for the federal money trough. Reward businesses for investing in- even starting and running- school systems.
3) Wipe out all college loans for people who work for five years in Appalachia in a helping profession.
4) Subsidize small business start up loans in Appalachia, and make it a grant if they show a profit and hire 20 people within 5 years.
5) If people want to give money to Appalachia, then give a special tax credit to those who directly contribute to education or new businesses.
6) Tie federal subsidies of infrastructure construction to a mandate for state, county and local governments to remove obstacles to local business start-ups.
7) When a local government is corrupt, seize, arrest, prosecute and sentence local politicians for corruption. If the corruption involves state or federal money, let state and federal charges follow. If an entire local government needs to be taken over by the state, so be it. Send teams of prosecutors with specific mandates to prosecute local corruption and abuse of funds.
8. Give incentives for faith-based cooperatives and networks to start drug rehabs, build houses, provide scholarships, do job training, provide food, etc. Not individual churches, but cooperative networks. (So you will keep your nose out of local church matters.)
9) Give a full state tuition scholarship to every student fulfilling a list of requirements including: 3.5 GPA minimum, community service or employment, clean legal/driving record, graduation from high school. Make the scholarship 4 years contingent on maintaining a similar record in college. Pay all college expenses for students coming back to Appalachia to work in a helping profession.
10) Give medical and drug companies tax incentives to focus on Appalachian problems and to provide medicine and care in Appalachian communities.
Nice piece. Thanks.
Hmmm. So do you want to return to the era where only those who could afford it could get an education? Or do you want to invite the sort of graft and corruption and poor performance we’ve certainly seen in Texas charter schools and which you seem to recognize is inevitable in other industries. I couldn’t tell from your post which path you were advocating for education.
I think a lot of good would come from making it financially more rewarding for Appalachian farmers to grow crops to sell at local markets and small grocery chains rather than tobacco. As the number of small farms continue to increase in the Mid-Atlantic and Midwest, people are growing accustomed to buying from local farmers. Besides the fact that growing tobacco is ridiculously hard work, selling vegetables and fruits locally would benefit agricultural and community pride. Corruption, damages from coal (strip mining, especially), some of the bad education here I think are in many ways perpetuated by the dependence Appalachians have on the government. Creating and sustaining a more practical agriculture will once again allow Appalachians to really own their land.
2) Get out of the education business and get the private business sector into it. Make Appalachia a showplace for school systems run by private, not public, corporations. I’d love to see a school system run by Wal-Mart or UPS. End the competition for the federal money trough. Reward businesses for investing in- even starting and running- school systems.
Really? The big problem with a company like Wal-Mart running a school is that Wal-Mart is focused on profit. Running a school is (or should be) about providing the best possible education for every student there. There is a difference in these goals and if push comes to shove Wal-Mart (or any other corporation) will come down on the side of profit because they are required by law to do so.
Now, if you want to talk about a non-profit entity running a school, I think you may have something there. Of course, I think insurance companies should be non-profit, too, so what the heck do I know?
Scott M:
>9) Give a full state tuition scholarship to every student fulfilling a list of requirements including: 3.5 GPA minimum, community service or employment, clean legal/driving record, graduation from high school. Make the scholarship 4 years contingent on maintaining a similar record in college. Pay all college expenses for students coming back to Appalachia to work in a helping profession.
>3) Wipe out all college loans for people who work for five years in Appalachia in a helping profession.
And I don’t believe I said anything about “returning” anyone to anything. I said here’s some things the government can do.
If you mean am I against public education, then the answer is no. I’m the most outspoken advocate of public schools you’ll find among other conservative evangelical bloggers. But the public schools here are awash in horrible graft and corruption. Dumping Federal money into these schools is not the right thing to do.
ms
Captain Noble:
I obviously was being hyperbolic in saying that I’d like UPS and Wal Mart to run schools. And I didn’t mean simply for profit. I meant like a serious business.
ms
Having done home/public/private/religous schooling for my kids, I agree with mr. imonk.
Preach on, preach on.
I agree with all of your points, especially the need for jobs. That is my major concerns about our economy right now. All the manufacturing jobs are going to where they pay less, and have less regulations for safety and the environment.
Having lived in Appalachia for 10 years I noticed that it is one of the prettiest places in America. I have been to both coasts and at least 20 states. There is a vast potential for outdoor recreation and resorts there. A system of trails, navigable rivers, hunting, fishing, camping, and eco-tourism opportunities should be provided. Private landowners should be provided with incentives for allowing their land to be accessed for those activities. For example, the Dept of Fish and Wildlife Resources in KY charges a nominal fee (last time I checked it was $10 or $20) just to apply for a quota hunt for Elk. Thousands of instate and out of state hunters applied even though only 40 or 50 licenses would be offered. I recall hiking on a plateau in Clay County that was absolutely beautiful and rivaled any other view I have seen in America. Any successfull organization in America will tell you that the reason they are successful is because they emphasize their strengths and improve thier weaknesses. Another example, McDonalds is doing great in this economy because it has emphasized the marketing of its basic products, Wal-Mart is doing the same. The Dominican Republic is taking this same idea and building a huge tourism business. Ky is within a days drive of most of the population.
>Ryan CordleL: “I think a lot of good would come from making it financially more rewarding for Appalachian farmers to grow crops to sell”
While this sounds good, exactly just what crop and where is the farmland on which to grow it?
Appalachia is mountainous, with steep forested hillsides and little bottom land. Most bottom land is flood plain including the existing towns. Have you ever looked at Eastern KY with Google Maps and Google Street View? Feel free to point out the farmland. Note the flood walls.
>”Besides the fact that growing tobacco is ridiculously hard work.”
Um, tobacco is by and large not grown in Appalachia. You may have confused Western KY with Eastern KY. You won’t find much tobacco, if any, in any of the Google links to the area. I spent a week driving the hollers of Eastern KY where my people once lived and don’t recall ever seeing tobacco, which is a big plant and hard to miss. There may have been some over by Bowling Green, but not in the backbone of Applachia.
The imonk’s ideas are spot on. We went out of our way to spend our money at mom and pop diners and motels. I’d encourage others to come visit and leave some of your cash in local hands.
God bless the fine people of Appalachia…
What the original piece did not cover, and your follow-up really does not address, is the core reasons for the poverty and everything else that comes with it. Very rarely does “culture of poverty” fit better than it does in relation to Appalachia. I live in SE Ohio, and my particular county (Gallia) is not nearly as bad off as Meigs or Vinton, or counties in KY (Clay, Greenup, Floyd, et al), or the (near) entire state of WV, but it is already trending in that direction. Throwing money at the problem, whether by federal grants or “welfare” or private sector capital will not fix the problem. What needs to be addressed, and what has really been completely ignored, is what in the culture and the earliest socialization causes these attitutes and norms to develop. I have my own theories, but I’d like to see a definitive study done, like the studies that have been done on inner city and urban cultures of poverty. And, unlike those studies, I’d like to see the findings actually met- head on- so that meaningful solutions can be crafted and implemented. But most people can agree that the problem begins at home.
Having performance based accountability is the bottom line, but not necessarily a private sector model. Look at health care. Let the business guys run the show and the only thing going up is the price and the bonuses. Competition, my…..
The rewards for academic performance need to be stronger and need to include family based incentives. In addition, the professions of teaching and school administration need to be made more respectable in society’s mind. Schools have a mission, they cannot be used as an employment program for poor communities. This can only be achieved with accountability.
Sounds like you have the same problem as the west of my country: “You can’t eat scenery”.
Yes, it’s picturesque, but it’s poor, so the solution for the past two centuries has been emigration.
I do get your point about corruption and waste in the school system, and the folly of throwing good money after bad. But as regards running schools like businesses, what is the profit? That’s what a business is for – to create profit for its owners. Not to create jobs, not to provide a service to the local economy, but to create profit (that’s what was hammered into our heads when we were being trained about looking for work – ‘a business is not a charity’).
Now, if the ‘profit’ is turning out ‘employable people’, then yes. But being connected with local education here, and having family members who were involved in teaching in the neighbouring island, there’s a lot of things that can go on.
With the points race and league tables, having school A down the rankings in the low hundreds as against school B which is up in the top ten, that means school B is a better school. Doesn’t it? Not necessarily. For one, there will be ‘cherry-picking’ of the better students for certain schools, and the ones who are less able will be left to sink or swim. If school B gets the more able, and school A gets the less able pupils, then you would expect school B to do better in the state exams. For school A, having pupils who get Cs and Ds in their exams may be a great result – since these are pupils who are less able, who would have dropped out instead of staying in school, who would never have sat exams ordinarily.
I’ve seen this stratification here in our own town – the very able go to school A, the middle go to schools B and C, and the less academically able (including those with emotional and behavioural problems, and with special needs) come to our school D, while the mentally handicapped go to school E.
We’re never going to have the star pupils who got seven “A*”s in their Leaving Certificate (though we had one boy who got very, very good results and walked into an apprenticeship with the national Electricity Generating company no problem), but we do as good by our pupils as we can. We depend a lot on government money. We’re always going to have the kids who throw chairs in class, who swear, fight, walk out in the middle of the day, are mixing with bad company and in danger of getting involved in petty crime (drugs, shoplifting, so on), who come from difficult home circumstances, and a certain percentage who *do* drop out in spite of all we can do (though we then do our best to steer them to the early-school leavers’ services available).
Run our school as a business, and you’re going to purge all those undesirable elements. And where do they go then?
I should reveal my bias; my brother is a teacher, and my Lord, the teachers have the best union in the country (actually, this being Ireland, land of “after we form the society, the first thing on the agenda will be the split”, they have the three best unions in the country) so I get what you’re saying about entrenched practices.
But my brother also taught for a while in England, where the governments of various stripes have been messing about with the education system in response to perceived failures and “it’s not turning out the kind of school-leavers that businesses want”. End result? You would not *believe* the paperwork involved. All the boxes to be ticked that the teacher is hitting the targets – I genuinely do not know how they get the time to teach.
Yes, it’s a disgrace that pupils are leaving school unable to read fluently, write legibly, or do basic maths, but it’s just as bad to go back to the “Hard Times” model of Mr. Gradgrind where the pupils are to be stuffed with useful facts then churned out like sausages for work in the box factories.
So, IMonk, are you considering a run for public office?
No one in the world is “providing the best education possible”. No one in the real world can operate without financial constraints. What many of us see is that private industry is much better at working within economic constraints to achieve a positive outcome than is the public sector. If you give the government enough money they are capable of a good outcome but “enough money” may be impoverishing for everyone else.
Timothy:
Ryan lives in South Eastern Ky. He won’t need Google.
Tobacco is a large cash crop here in Clay Co Ky. There are hundreds of large tobacco fields within 10 miles of where Ryan and I live. There are several farms raising nothing but tobacco. We drive past the largest tobacco fields I’ve ever seen every time we go to Wal Mart. And I grew up in western Ky.
Eastern Ky is not all mountains/flood plain. It isn’t entirely friendly to agriculture, but then ag hasn’t been very innovative here either. I agree that Eastern Ky isn’t Nebraska farm country, but Eastern Ky could be doing a lot that it isn’t currently doing, esp on a smaller scale. We’ve had University of Ky ag staff here many times and they have a lot of great ideas- goats, catfish, hemp etc- that can be successful in smaller scale agriculture.
Tobacco’s appeal in Ky is that it’s a cash crop that can make a return far beyond the investment. Same reason we have a lot of marijuana being grown here.
ms
I’ve written on the culture of poverty in previous IM pieces. Do a search on “Appalachia” in the site search. I wasn’t doing an analysis of that issue in this post.
The corruption in government and education in the poorest of SE Kys counties can’t be appreciated by those of you in other areas. You have no reference point, trust me. Example.
The mayor of our county seat had local thugs burn down a house so a police station could be built with his name on it. A local 911 coordinator was convicted of selling drugs.
There are a lot of good people in Eastern Ky, but the temptation of easy money and government money combined with the tribal nature of life here touches almost everyone.
ms
I see *no* evidence that “private industry is much better at working within economic constraints to achieve a positive outcome than is the public sector.” We are in this current economic disaster precisely because private industry was left to do its thing, completely independent of government or any other type of interference. The result: economic collapse followed by bailouts of Wall Street, the banks, and the automakers by *us,* the taxpayers, and our grandchildren.
“Infrastructure: Again, if you can build roads, bridges and sewers in such a way that local governments will do what they should do to get private sector jobs to locate here as a result, great.”
I’m not sure why we have to go all around this convoluted path to get jobs to the area (get local governments to get private sector jobs to locate here…) Why not provide federal jobs that can start now, al la Roosevelt’s WPA. We are still using those roads and bridges these 70 years later; they were built well. But they need upgrading or replacement. The jobs of building the roads and bridges and so forth would go to local people and be paid for by “the government” — which is to say, us. I’d gladly have my tax dollars go there. Yes, it might be “short term,” only several years, but it would greatly boost the local economy, thus attracting that “private sector” investment like new stores and other services.
And I don’t see why the federal government (= us) and the “private sector” have to be bitter enemies. Why not have them cooperate? As Michael said, “The owner of a garage I used to patronize told me that he couldn’t pay his help as much as they would make on welfare and government benefits…” I agree this is a real problem. Well, then, reduce the government benefits for those who can work but aren’t working, and add in some benefits for those who are working at the local garage or the corner store.
It doesn’t seem to me this would take a rocket scientist to figure out. Therefore, I’m afraid that Michael’s speculation may be true: “You live in some of these counties long enough, you have to wonder if local leaders really want factories, etc to come here.”
I’m sure they don’t. They’d lose their power base. If you haven’t already, read “Night Comes to the Cumberlands.”
Patrick Rowe is right, btw. And the reason that isn’t happened is, again, a combination of the local culture and corrupt leadership.
H. Lee:
There are almost NO factories in Clay Co.
Factories don’t come here. 17 years I’ve been here. No factories. You want a job? They get ready to drive an hour, because there are no factories here, because local culture and local government, addicted to government benefits and the illegal economy, don’t care.
40 Miles away, they are everywhere.
50 miles away, medical centers of every kind.
But in Clay Co., a government welfare state where government jobs have been promised as the savior for at least 50 years, NO FACTORIES.
Same with almost all private business. And this in an area where labor is cheap. Wal-Mart has a small unit here, but refuses to open a large one because they won’t be able to find enough skilled local people to run it. That’s us.
Government jobs? No. Private industry that comes and stays. Not government make-work jobs.
Will short term jobs “boost” the economy? Maybe. Will it attract other businesses? No. Absolutely not.
ms
In the Blue Ridge section of Appalachia, where I live, The Government is a big part of the problem. The FBI is very busy at our courthouse,I just blogged on two judges who sold out the future of juveniles. Our Congressman for life funded his family in a failed government sponsored business, nobody cares. We have the remnant of Coal mine mentality.
30 more Catholic churches are closing, that must be a bad sign when Rome gives up on you.
The Answer? Somebody has to make widgets. We need manufacturing here, not in Mexico or China.
I agree, Martha. I don’t believe that schools (and churches) can’t be run like businesses. I think we are all seeing the outcome of that with healthcare. In a business, one can calculate how long it takes to make a widget, how much the material and labor costs, and how much marketing and other things will cost. With education, how long and how much effort it takes to get a kid to write well, or understand algebra, or comprehend why the Civil War was fought is not so easily measured. Each widget is the same, and is made the same; each child is not. I have a sibling that is a nurse, and she is seeing the results of running healthcare under a business model and it’s not pretty.
Kevin: You said some good things, but by making “YOU” the subject of every sentence, you’re insulting me- I don’t throw my trash in a creek, etc- and everyone else reading. You also seemed to be really angry, and I’m not promoting a brawl or shouting contest.
As for your tax money, I’d be happy to give my portion back to you? How much can I send you, along with a copy of all the New Testament verses about paying your taxes.
And you are right- no one owes us a living. Great point.
Thanks to you, I’m turning on comment moderation. Everyone will be waiting a few minutes before their comments appear.
You are right. I am angry at how ungrateful the recipients of this Stimulus Bill are.
Timothy
About 20% of Kentucky’s tobacco comes from Appalachian counties that the ARC has labeled as “economically distressed.” As you point out, Western KY produces a large amount of tobacco, but this does not mean that many farmers in Appalachia do not rely on tobacco. They have relied on tobacco for so long, because as you have pointed out there is not a ton of acreage on which to farm. There were also government measures to make tobacco financially rewarding for such farmers. Therefore, in most cases farmers can find the highest profits by growing tobacco on limited acreage. This is why I suggested that limited government intervention might be beneficial for Eastern KY agriculture by making it more financially rewarding to diversify. The success of farmers growing things besides tobacco for local consumers will positively benefit the community. People will begin to take ownership for their local land, and seek to clean it up from the litter problems, and ultimately protect it from coal abuse. Also, as a greater sense of community grows, we can hope that education, and retention of college grads will also improve. I do not believe that successful agriculture means the 500 acre farms I grew up seeing in Ohio.
Many crops can be grown here, and they have for 200 years. Also, with the growing interests in PawPaws and ginseng there are countless possibilities. Some farmer’s markets thrive right now in my county, and I have no reason to believe that more wouldn’t.
I’m going to moderate this post very narrowly. If you folks want to talk about the stimulus bill, I won’t post it.
I know everyone is upset, but Appalachia isn’t the cause of America’s banking and credit woes, believe it or not.
I’m glad that the TV knows who you are, Michael.
I grew up in the Ozark Mountains in one of the poorest counties in Arkansas, which so lags the nation in just about everything that our state motto ought to be “Thank God for Mississippi.”
I don’t know anything about Appalachia but here the educational problem is two-fold. Of course the facilities and teachers aren’t world class, but the deeper problem is cultural.
Education just isn’t a value. Schools exist to provide sports teams to the local community. Parents seem to see nothing wrong with a mediocre education, because if someone gets too smart, they’re liable to leave the state.
Moving back here put a severe strain on my marriage. I had absolutely no desire to raise my child in this environment. It’s sad, but part of the deal I cut with my wife is that my daughter would attend the best private school in the state. That way 100% of her peers are headed to college, unlike my high school, where people who went to college were aberrations.
Now distance education is beginning to spread, offering children access to first-class instruction from anywhere. A large emphasis of mine, before I retired from the corporate world just in time to have my nest egg shredded, was a similar strategy for work – telework.
In a knowledge economy it matters not where you live because the work comes to you over the internet. My wife was able to pursue her career from state to state because I worked at home through 6 different bosses, 4 different jobs and 3 promotions. I made it work.
I have flirted with the idea of starting a non-profit here to work on it, but the missing link is education. If a company can now hire the best workers from anywhere, then the competition for those jobs is going to be fierce. The best bet may be to convince those Arkansans who have moved away to move back, along with their jobs, and bring their good taxable incomes with them.
Just to clarify, I had no intention of saying bad things about Mississippi. It’s a common joke here, but I realize that it could be hurtful and I apologize.
However, I don’t mind if the people in Mississippi say “Thank God for Arkansas.” We deserve it. We brought our current situation on ourselves.
Oh, yes, local graft.
We don’t quite have the stage of politicos using arson, but old-boys’-networking and you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours? Tell me about it.
We’ve just come out of about a decade of public tribunals, costing millions upon millions, about allegations of corruption and bribery in regard to development involving both local and national government. Result? Only one guy so far ever saw the inside of a jail cell for a very limited time, and he’s since died in a car accident. Everyone knows there was graft but there’s no prospect of anything being done about it.
That’s the problem: when the people in charge of the system are milking it for every cent they can get, then the honest idiots like you and me who pay our taxes and do our jobs are the ones who lose out. And those who need help don’t get it, and for generation after generation it goes on – businesses won’t come into the area because there’s nothing there to attract them; if there are government grants alloted to attract them, there’s a queue lined up to stick their fingers in the pie and pull out the plums for themselves, and meanwhile Joe Public can go whistle.
To those of you not being posted:
If you think that the stimulus is coming to Appalachia, does this mean you’ve actually read it?
And if you keep inviting me to leave Appalachia, I may turn up on your doorstep. Now there’s Appalachia coming right to your house to mooch off you. That would be annoying.
Have I read it? You betcha. : [MOD Edit]
“Making Work Pay” credit. The new law provides an individual tax credit in the amount of 6.2 percent of earned income not to exceed $400 for single returns and $800 for joint returns in 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out at adjusted gross income (AGI) in excess of $75,000 ($150,000 for married couples filing jointly). The credit can be claimed as a reduction in the amount of income tax that is withheld from a paycheck, or through a credit on a tax return.
Economic recovery payment. The new law provides for a one-time payment of $250 to retirees, disabled individuals and Social Security beneficiaries and SSI recipients receiving benefits from the Social Security Administration and Railroad Retirement beneficiaries, and to veterans receiving disability compensation and pension benefits from the U.S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs.
Unemployment compensation exclusion. A provision temporarily suspends federal income tax on the first $2,400 of unemployment benefits received by a recipient in 2009.
Expanded earned income tax credit. The new law provides tax relief to families with three or more children and increases marriage penalty relief. The changes apply for 2009 and 2010.
Expanded child tax credit. A measure increases the eligibility for the refundable child tax credit in 2009 and 2010 by lowering the threshold to $3,000 (from $8,500 in 2008).
Expanded and revised higher education tax credit. The new law creates a $2,500 higher education tax credit that is available for the first four years of college. The credit is based on 100% of the first $2,000 of tuition and related expenses (including books) paid during the tax year and 25% of the next $2,000 of tuition and related expenses paid during the tax year, subject to a phase-out for AGI in excess of $80,000 ($160,000 for married couples filing jointly). Forty percent of the credit is refundable. The new credit temporarily replaces the Hope credit.
Expanded first-time credit for first-time home buyers. Last year, Congress provided taxpayers with a refundable tax credit that was equivalent to an interest-free loan equal to 10% of the purchase of a home (up to $75,000) by first-time home buyers. The provision applied to homes purchased on or after April 9, 2008 and before July 1, 2009. Taxpayers receiving this tax credit were required to repay any amount received under this provision back to the government over 15 years in equal installments (or earlier if the home was sold). The credit phases out for taxpayers with adjusted gross income in excess of $75,000 ($150,000 in the case of a joint return). The new law enhances the credit by eliminating the repayment obligation for taxpayers that purchase homes on or after January 1, 2009. It also extends the credit through the end of November 2009, and bumps up the maximum value of the credit from $7,500 to $8,000.
Tax break for new car purchasers. The new law allows taxpayers to deduct State and local sales taxes paid on the purchase of a new automobile, including light trucks, SUVs, motorcycles, and motor homes. The tax break phases out starting with taxpayers earning $125,000 per year ($250,000 for joint returns). The deduction is allowed to both those who itemize their deductions as well as to nonitemizers. However, the deduction cannot be taken by a taxpayer who elects to deduct State and local sales taxes in lieu of State and local income taxes.
Incentives to hire unemployed veterans and disconnected youth. Businesses are allowed to claim a work opportunity tax credit equal to 40% of the first $6,000 of wages paid to employees of one of nine targeted groups. The new law expands the work opportunity tax credit to include two new targeted groups: (1) unemployed veterans; and (2) disconnected youth. Individuals qualify as unemployed veterans if they were discharged or released from active duty from the Armed Forces during 2008, 2009 or 2010 and received unemployment compensation for more than four weeks during the year before being hired. Individuals qualify as disconnected youths if they are between the ages of 16 and 25 and have not been regularly employed or attended school in the past 6 months.
As “they” would say, I “growed up” in KY, but further North. Your comments generally square with what I “knowed” of Eastern KY, but even in the Northern Bluegrass area where I formerly resided. All I would add is that those who discount “systemic” sin or evil had better look again. Your comments and those of several others reveal this. Walking down an aisle to pray the infamous “sinner’s prayer” so that you know you’re going to heaven when you die or doing so to “rededicate” your life doesn’t begin to touch the depth of sin there and everywhere. Paul wrote about “the principalites and powers,” and they are very much alive and too well these days in Eastern KY and all other places.
Kevin,
I’m going to say this once:
I did not post about the stimulus. You’ve hijacked the thread and had 4 posts not posted because you’re bizzarely angry at people in Ky. I’m really sorry that you’re angry, but I’m not going to provide you a forum to vent about it.
Saying that Appalachia is the cause of the various stimulus items you’ve posted is patently ridiculous. The law applies to every state and every American. If you don’t like it, look up your congressperson.
If you use the term “You” again as you have in your other posts, implying that I and other people in SE Ky are your problem, I’m going to ban you permanently. I’m pretty close to that anyway, because you’ve destroyed a good conversation.
ms
“There are a lot of good people in Eastern Ky, but …. combined with the tribal nature of life here touches almost everyone.”
As to the tribal bit.
My brother’s wife comes from Sturgis Ky. While not Appalachia it’s similar. Her dad was a miner and much of what has been discussed about attitudes applies to her family. The area in general is fairly poor. She and my brother moved to SC and he works for BMW. It was a long slog for them with him working (closing?) in various small textile mills in the 80s and 90s till he got with BMW. She’s been telling her extended family she’ll not move back to Sturgis for 30 years. They still keep telling her she “should”.
Two of her cousins would couldn’t find work in Sturgis moved down near them and got work as painters. Could work as many hours as they wanted and were putting money in the bank. But eventually the family pressures to move back to Sturgis overwhelmed their good sense. And their wives never did move so they moved back to be fed and housed by their poor but somewhat better off extended family.
The tribal issues run deep and cause a lot of the problems.
As to the people suggesting that tourist income would go a long way I don’t think you get the depth to which a lot of Appalachia folks don’t want ANYONE in their business. They’d rather be poor than have to deal with outsiders.
Disclaimers I’ve not lived in KY in 28 years but there’s different mindset in the entire state, especially Appalachia, which is just alien to most of the country. Rural NC has a lot of it once you get away from the 1/2 dozen or so urban areas.
I spent a few months in Pike county KY doing engineering consulting at a large food plant some years back With the exception of this one plant (and coal) – I didn’t see much else, and iMonk would probably say this area has a booming economy compared to Clay county. In all my travels as a consultant, I’ve not seen this kind of poverty except in some areas I’ve worked in India and Nepal.
The clannish, corrupt, even violent behavior of many in eastern KY is ingrained in the culture. Some, like Malcolm Gladwell in his book “Outliers”, make a strong case that this goes all the way back to the early Scots-Irish settlers and the often hazy land-ownership issues of this once frontier area.
Free money, make-work jobs, and more computers in classrooms will not change the culture. I believe it starts with a well educated populace (and agree with many of iMonk’s thoughts on incentives to create motivated students) and decent jobs for them to move into as adults so that they can become self-sufficient.
One final point on infrastructure. The temporary jobs associated with infrastructure projects to me are insignificant compared to the longer-term impact on industry. Good infrastructure is an absolute must for attracting manufacturing. Why would I want to build a factory in a remote area, with insufficient utilities, poor industrial sewage, and nothing but winding narrow roads filled with overloaded coal trucks? All these things ultimately impact my costs, and in this economy, there are plenty of other options.
Pikeville is doing well. Medical school. Rural Development Center. Pikeville College. Clay Co is getting a new Community College center, for which we are extremely grateful.
iMonk-
Be careful in advocating local/regional tax breaks for companies to move into an area and hire employees for a specified amount of time. Many companies go searching for those tax breaks and become “gypsy” companies moving from tax break to tax break. Local business start ups tend to stay in the area where they are founded. Just a thought.
Ed:
One final point on infrastructure. The temporary jobs associated with infrastructure projects to me are insignificant compared to the longer-term impact on industry. Good infrastructure is an absolute must for attracting manufacturing. Why would I want to build a factory in a remote area, with insufficient utilities, poor industrial sewage, and nothing but winding narrow roads filled with overloaded coal trucks? All these things ultimately impact my costs, and in this economy, there are plenty of other options.
Bingo! We have built and constructed but rarely maintained and improved. I work for a public school district. Maintenance is the first casualty of budget cutting and the last to be restored.
As to the issue of a better school system.
First off my kids have been in the public schools for the past 13 years. 1 more to go. I fully support a public school system. But we succeeded in spite of the mess. It was a fight all the way to get our kids educated in spite of the system.
I’ll offer a different take on what iMonk said about running the schools. They don’t need WalMart or Cisco or Google running them. What they need is an incentive to do better at educating kids. Almost the entire system is not designed this way. No “Child Left Behind”, NC’s ABC system, and almost every other government program don’t work because the metrics are all based on other public schools. They are trying to come up with a better mediocre system. Not the best system they can.
I’m convinced that charter schools and vouchers need to be in place. Even the flawed system we have here in NC with charters where they only get operating expenses and not capital funds is working great. But it is capped at the current size and the NEA and most of the education institutions are fighting tooth and nail to keep it this size or reduce it.
There needs to be an incentive in place where if the public schools don’t perform, other options are available.
I could write a 10 page essay on details but I’ve lived it first hand and the current system is falling down flat. My son’s 2008 graduation class was missing 1/3 of the seniors due to them not getting the grades and courses needed to graduate. And this school is a “Leadership and Technology” magnet school in what is considered one of the best school systems in the country. The admin and teachers to a large degree just don’t care. There are exceptions, some wonderful, but they are exceptions.
And based on my past experience growing up in KY and living in Lexington for a while talking to folks from the eastern end of the state, iMonk is living with a much worse situation. I grew up in the other end of the state and most of our high school away basketball games were played in gyms that could have been used in the movie “Hoosier’s” And we were MUCH better off than iMonk’s end of the state.
Oh well.
“doesn’t work”
There seems to be a cycle regarding poverty and education, and I don’t know which is the chicken and which is the egg. What we see in our rural area is a growing number of second, third, fourth generation low-income families who do not value education for their children–who do not want their children to aspire to success. Industries do not move here because there is not a large enough population base to provide high-quality, dependable workers.
We perhaps don’t have the widespread corruption that you talk about in Appalachia, but certainly drug problems, crime, lack of jobs, school consolidation all echo your experience.
Do you ever get tired of being treated like a problem that needs to be solved?
I know that this discussion has mostly been focused on the sociological, political and economical issue of Appalachia but I wonder if there is a theological or Christ-o-cultural (is there a better word for this that they teach in seminary?) facet that was unique to the Bible Belt?
I was born in the heart of Appalachia, in N.E. Tennessee. I moved to Lexington for graduate school but I’ve lived outside the region since 1982, now living in the Pacific NW. I do go back once a year to visit my dear old mom.
On my last visit my sister (who lives in Fl) and I were making some observations. Virtually everyone on my mother’s street (some of whom we grew up with) are; 1) morbid obese (300LBs +), 2) on some type of disability-usually fibromyalgia, 3) on lots of Vicodin and some still attend the missionary Baptist church nearby.
The little missionary Baptist church has gone from scandal to scandal over the decades. When I was a kid it was the Sunday school director who was a pedophile (but kept secret). The latest thing was a 25 year old married girl, who was competing with a much older woman to be the official church pianist supposedly slept with the 58 year old, married, head deacon to secure the post of pianist. But the real problem, according to my mom, is that the new pastor made a big deal about it. “It was none of his business†according to my mom and most of the church agrees. They are trying to run the new pastor off (as they have the others).
So a honest question (not rhetorical at all) was there something intrinsic within the Bible Belt culture, the way they looked at God, or life, that made them especially vulnerable to this plight? I have some ideas but not a certainty and maybe there isn’t a one simple answer.
The answer is yes, at least on some level.
God is at the center of everything, but I think the answer is multi-leveled. Churches here are as deteriorated as anything else. Preachers have a high profile, but the gospel is rarer here than on some mission fields. There was a a lot stronger church presence in the immediate postwar. You can see that with all the major denominations here, even the Catholics. Today, it’s just becoming pagan. It’s still “churchy” in a Flannery O’Connor kind of way, but the life here is increasingly about the immediate: food, money, drugs, survival, finding a place to live, some way to make money.
Listen, here’s my problem. I could take you to 15 kids right now that left our school with full scholarships to local colleges, and they are dropped out and back here living “the life:” welfare, drugs, illegitimate children, pot, 4 wheelers.
I mean, it’s a fallen, broken, sinful world. And it needs the gospel, churches, etc. But it’s a complex, deteriorated area. It’s like post war decadence.
Wow – not sure exactly what to say, but I’m a Harlan County native, a child of natives of those mountains for nearly 200 years. I’m not a big political person. I purposely stay out of it. Just a couple of thoughts…
- The culture of the deep mountains of Eastern Kentucky would require a very lengthy historical ethnology written by a team of very talented and dedicated Anthropologists to even begin to explain to anyone who isn’t from there or hasn’t lived there for some length of time. And “from there” is huge – to be born into a family who carries that living culture and passes it on to you. It’s a long, hard, complicated story. That story is alive in the bones of those who are born in the shadow of those hills, and especially in those who continue to live there.
- Infrastructure: This is HUGE. Have you ever driven to Harlan? There really is only one significant way in. It’s much better than it used to be, and coming in from Virginia through one of three or four routes – forget that. Factories? Ain’t happnin’. Not until there are very significant roads in and out. Pikeville is at the end of the Interstate-like Mountain Parkway. I-64 runs through to the North-East. Harlan? Not so much – even less, Clay County and some others.
- The Coal Mines are there because, well, of the coal. The Coal mines – wow – the change of a world, oppression, slavery, revolution, war, depression, again – deeply complicated. Oh, and coal miners are not poor. If you watched the special, you saw the story of an 18 year old who went to work in the mines at a starting salary of $60,000 per year. Sure, it’s dangerous – so is fishing on a crab boat, so is being a fireman, so is timber work and a number of other things. It’s a little different now than when my Grandfathers worked in an 18″ hole with a carbide light on soft mining hats with no breathing masks. Anyway, it’s the complex interaction of the Coal Mining industry with the area and its people that is more important than trying to spin that it’s somehow “sad” that an 18 y/o is making 60k a year.
- My father was the first of his family to go to college. He became a high school English teacher, a good one, for 30+ years. He could’ve made more, at least these days, working in the mines, but teaching is a stable job in the area. My mother was a nurse (nursing school paid for my the UMWA) for 40+ years, again, a stable job. I grew up as many of my friends did in Harlan, “middle class”. There is certainly poverty in the Mountains, but perspective is huge. Anthropology again (this is what I do with that pesky degree in my head): definitions of “poverty” please, relative definitions would help. “Need” vs. “want” – how the region’s own view of itself has changes over time since it began to watch itself being portrayed on television – all very interesting things to consider in all this.
OK, way more than I intended to say – may not be much connected to what many of you are talking about, but I thought I’d lay a little Mountain blood on the table here. Peace.
Yeah . . . but it seems that the fallen broken world takes on different flavors in one place over another (not that one is worse).
Here in the San Juan Islands, I’m sure people would see themselves as better off than how I described Appalachia. However the Fall here takes on the form of no-church association, new-age spiritualism, materialism, workaholic-ism and the drugs of choice here (although Vicodin and meth have there place) would be all-natural-organic, Asian herbals to prevent or cure all known diseases, give you energy and focus.
iMonk,
You say, “I could take you to 15 kids right now that left our school with full scholarships to local colleges, and they are dropped out and back here living “the life:†welfare, drugs, illegitimate children, pot, 4 wheelers.”
You’re describing a terrible situation, but surely it’s one quite beyond the reach of either private or federal jobs, isn’t it?
Such broken people will never fill places at Walmart or on federal road crews. It seems a hopeless situation, truly, and I certainly have no solutions at all.
Living here in southwestern Ohio, we have sections of this dead-end culture, but they are not the majority. These hopeless attitudes might spread, though, as our factories close and head for Mexico.
But I do agree with Ed that (re)building the infrastructure is a good thing not only for the jobs it brings (short-term though they be, and certainly *not* make-work), but for the way it opens the area to industrial possibilities: “Good infrastructure is an absolute must for attracting manufacturing. Why would I want to build a factory in a remote area, with insufficient utilities, poor industrial sewage, and nothing but winding narrow roads filled with overloaded coal trucks?”
The Flannery O’Connor reference above makes me think of her famous quote: “The South is not so much Christ-centered as it is Christ-haunted.”
I live in Stockton, CA, the city with the highest foreclosure rate in the country, one of (if not the) highest crime rates, and yeah, some pretty extensive drug use, poverty and welfare. And the church presence in this blighted city is dwindling, so I have half an idea what you’re talking about.
A friend and I have been visiting local churches, trying to get the “lay of the land”, hoping to see what there is to see, and maybe find some ways to deal with some serious underlying issues. And we’re both glad you’re out there, helping show that all is not well in the church today. Thank you.