And if you’re not evangelical, you’re guaranteed to never be fooled into thinking all is well and good?

I find this a strange contention, for two reasons: I am constantly aware of my need for Christ’s intervention in my life, as an evangelical (who hates the label–I prefer fellow believer), and indeed, I hear that teaching from the pulpit of my church as well. And secondly, it’s really specious to believe that because one is Catholic, one will never be deceived into thinking that all is well and good. It’s part of the human condition to deceive ourselves. There are many men and women of all stripes of Christendom who have believed and thought that all was well and good, and yet they will hear from Christ, “I never knew you.” Being a Catholic, or being an evangelical, is no guarantee that we are more keenly aware of our need for Christ than by being in any other branch of Christendom.

What about all of those priests who held secrets such as Ted Haggard did, for so long, and didn’t reveal them? Catholicism wasn’t their savior–Christ, was, and still is. Didn’t they lie to themselves and others, just as much as Ted Haggard did? It’s very strange to point out Ted Haggard as an example of what’s wrong with evangelicalism when so many priests lived in similar ways, hiding their struggles. It doesn’t wash. Ted Haggard tells us less about evangelicalism, or Catholicism, than he tells us about the human condition. The bottom line is this: we need to love those priests, and Ted Haggard, with the love of Christ, and recognize that it is His love that allowed them to fall, and there but by the grace of God go I.

God is not limited by denominational divisions in order to bring His children to Himself. There have been plenty of evangelicals who will be welcomed into His arms, and plenty sadly that thought “all was well,” and He will say, “I never knew you.” The same can be said of Catholics as well.

I have lived a life long struggle with same sex attraction, and so I know the daily struggle of Ted Haggard. I suppose that’s the reason why this post drew my ire so much. I find it sad that Ted Haggard has battled with such a difficult demon, and I thank God that He continues to pursue him, and I see in Ted Haggard the sign of God’s grace. It’s abhorrent to me that his story has been used as a veiled attack at evangelicalism.

But I’ve said enough as is.

(An aside to iMonk: I sincerely hope that this is on topic, and my conversation with Dan is not an example of hijacking this thread. One of the things I enjoy about your blog is the dialogue that is often provoked in your comment threads.)

What I understood from iMonk’s original post, and the comments that followed, is that Ted was now coming to grips with who he really was (and is). Ted’s word for that was “loser.” I would equate “loser” with “wretched man,” as Paul called himself in Romans 7. The fact is, in some regard, we are all losers, in the sense that we cannot fulfill God’s law, and that we cannot fulfill even our own standards. We are not what we should be or what we want to be. But once we realize we are truly “wretched” and hopeless men, “losers” if you will, then we can go on to realize what we have in Christ (Romans 8). There is now no condemnation, and we have a new law of life that delivers us from sin.

The reason I appreciate iMonk’s critique of the contemporary evangelical church, in the context of Ted’s fall, is that you can be fooled into thinking all is well and good when you are in the midst of evangelical culture. You can forget that you are a “wretched man” (or a “loser”) in urgent need of salvation, not just once for all, but daily. Someone like Ted Haggard obviously was not experiencing what he was preaching. He railed against the very sins he was practicing, while riding the wave of evangelical popularity. All the evangelical stuff was not really working for him. And it is a word of love to Ted to make the strong point, “Don’t go back to that. Don’t do what evangelicals always do and then say you’re alright. You need something real, something deeper. You need to be honest with yourself, and find Christ in your new, humble condition.”

Specifically, you pointed out this quote from iMonk’s post:
“And some of the things you’ve said since your fall? How you were fixed with a few sessions of counseling? Not good, Ted. Not good. A very bad place. Avoid it.”

Then you ask, “Where’s the love in this?” I would respond, “There is a lot of love in that. That shows far more love than letting Ted fool himself again. To allow Ted to think he is “fixed” is not love, it is enabling him to live a lie.”

You then add, “Once again, condescension of the utmost degree. Would any here actually say such a thing to Ted Haggard?” If I had the opportunity, yes, I would say it to his face. I would even be a little angry about it, because his public fall has hurt the cause of Christ. It is not condescending to tell a person to stop fooling himself. Rather, it is condescending to pretend everything is okay.

I agree with you that Ted is not really a loser, he is a child of God. The love God has for him in Christ is eternal and unwavering. Ted will be wonderful and beautiful in the next age, and these negative things will be forgotten. But in this age, when we struggle against sin, recognizing the depths of our inabilities is a very healthy aspect of the Christian life, because it points us to the Lamb on the throne.

On a personal note, I began this morning telling the Lord I loved Him, asking Him to forgive me for who I am, and thanking Him for what He has done for me. I know I need Him. The reason I know I need Him is that I honestly believe I am a loser, a wretched man. I know that from experience. I don’t think the Lord disagrees with me when I recognized that I am a loser. On my own, I cannot be what I should be. But when I recognize this and tell Him so, there’s love, forgiveness, mercy, and grace. And I find then that I am much closer to what I should be than what I was before.

My apologies to you and iMonk for the long ramble.

And this:

“And some of the things you’ve said since your fall? How you were fixed with a few sessions of counseling? Not good, Ted. Not good. A very bad place. Avoid it.”

Where’s the love in this? Once again, condescension of the utmost degree. Would any here actually say such a thing to Ted Haggard?

As to Ted’s proclamation that he was a loser, because one labels himself as something doesn’t mean that it is true, or that we should use that label for him, or for ourselves. As to Christ and the woman who called herself a gentile dog, Christ died for her. She is no dog. As to the man who said, “Be merciful, for I am a sinner,” he spoke the truth, but admitting that we are fallen creatures is a very different thing than calling ourselves losers, a lie if there ever was one.

Ted is no loser, and nor is anyone on this earth. Labels mean something, and the truth of who we are as children of God demands that we view ourselves as God sees us. Indeed, we are all sinners, in need of a merciful savior. But if Christ were here today, would he ever call you, me, or Ted Haggard a loser? By no means would he do so, and so yes, even though Ted said it himself, I personally find the basic premise of this post problematic.

Overall, it seems that under the guise of wooing someone to the seat of supreme grace and love, chastising someone for movies, bands, and Disneyland revivals is not going to do the trick. It’s not a post for Ted–it’s a post for anti-evangelicals to feel smug about the rightness of their belief. It’s hogwash that this post, and this thread are actually motivated out of love for Ted Haggard. It’s just a vehicle for anti-evangelical rhetoric, painted over with a shellac of charity towards Ted Haggard that can be scraped away with a toothpick.

Love the man, a man made in the image of God, just like the all of us. I think of C.S. Lewis and his essay, the Weight of Glory. If we were to see Ted Haggard in his resurrected state, (and we all believe that he will be resurrected, don’t we, even if he happens to like movies and bands at church?), we would be sorely tempted to bow down and worship at his feet. That’s the TRUTH of who he is, in light of God’s love and grace, and in the light of eternity.

The word “loser” came from Ted Haggard’s own mouth, so the letter was a follow-up based on his own description of himself.

As sinners, we are all worse than losers. As redeemed and regenerated believers, we are all valuable and glorious, including Mr. Haggard. But sometimes you must realize you are a loser – i.e. you can’t make it on your own – before you realize what you have in Christ.

When a woman called herself a dog seeking to eat the crumbs from the table, the Lord didn’t correct her. She was a Gentile dog, and the Lord commended her for her faith, and “fed” her. The man who wailed and said, “Be merciful to me, Lord, a sinner,” went away justified.

So Ted is a loser, and so are you, and so am I. Those of us who know we are losers recognize we need a Savior. This post which so offends you was actually rejoicing that Ted now can find Christ in a way he never has before.

A lot of the people in this thread really wish that Ted Haggard would read this, but I do not think that it’s a letter filled with love. I feel that you are using one man’s very public and horrific fall as nothing more than a bully pulpit for attacking evangelicalism, and I find these words and this letter to be the very opposite of Christ’s call to love others. It’s no question that Christ will, and can use this in Ted Haggard’s life, if Ted is willing, and I suspect that at the end of his life, Ted will view this very public fall much the same way as we view Adam’s original fall: felix culpa! O happy fault that merited such and so great a Redeemer! Ted Haggard’s public fall was a severe mercy, done by the hand of his loving redeemer and Savior.

Despite his self moniker of “loser,” he is no “loser.” He is a prodigal son, like us all, wayfarers who have journeyed far from home. He is no loser, for Christ deigned to die for him! There is none on this earth that are losers–we are all more glorious in our existence than all of the stars in the universe combined, and Christ’s death on our behalf shows our worth more than anything, and indeed Ted Haggard’s very public fall shows his worth in a way that the world does not understand: Christ valued him enough to allow him to fall, and thus fall into His loving arms.

I find this post offensive, and indeed I hope that Ted Haggard doesn’t read it, and it’s an awful thing to use one man’s tragic and painful fall from grace, that was done by the hand of our loving God and Father, to be used as a bully pulpit for attacking fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, which evangelicals are. Perhaps they are mistaken on many issues, but why use the fall of Ted Haggard as a billy club to attack evangelicals? We should fall on our knees in prayer for Ted Haggard, and say, “but by the grace of God go I.” And we should never call anyone, not least ourselves, losers. That’s from the pit of hell, and an utter lie of our enemy.

It’s sad to see a post like this be so lauded, when all it seems to me is a gloating post that says, “Aha! See how one man fell! See…they really don’t get it, do they?” It seems to me that it’s very un-Christlike to use one man’s fall as an apologetic tool that says, “Gotcha, evangelicals–oh, we gotcha!”

Just pray for the man.

I have come to the belief that it is because God will no longer (ever since the rending of the curtain over the entrance to the Holy of Holies “from top to bottom) be contained in anyone’s box. And so, anyone who, like Mr. Haggard did, holds himself up as an example of true spirituality better make sure he has done a “searching and fearless moral inventory” and all the rest as illuminated by the 12-Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, or your Higher Power might just make a public example of you of how not to be, for your own good and the good of those who have followed you into spiritual and moral error.