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	<title>Comments on: A Time To Run Away and Look Back: Frank Schaeffer&#8217;s Calvin Becker Trilogy Considered</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: e2c</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-361664</link>
		<dc:creator>e2c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-361664</guid>
		<description>I finished the final book in the trilogy earlier this afternoon. What Frank writes about isn&#039;t cathartic for him alone, or for people from a fundamentalist/evangelical background alone. I&#039;ve encountered a &lt;b&gt;lot&lt;/b&gt; of the things he writes about in &quot;nonreligious&quot; circles - because he&#039;s writing about human beings, period.

Overall, I spent a lot of time in LOLZ-land. But the heart of all of these books is quite serious... He addresses the perfectionism that&#039;s dogged much of American Christianity in a way that I&#039;ve seen nobody else do - probably because they&#039;re afraid to make waves.

My guess is that Frank&#039;s portrayals of the Beckers cut so close to the bone that many of us just shut him off. That&#039;s sad.

Can I understand why many people would be upset by these books (and &lt;i&gt;Crazy for God&lt;/i&gt;)? Absolutely. Is he lacking in compassion? From my POV, not at all. If you&#039;ve been through a few shipwrecks and lived to tell the tale, you&#039;ll appreciate what he&#039;s done here. Is there TMI at times? yeah, but I&#039;m not gonna hold it against him. ;)

&lt;b&gt;iMonk&#039;s&lt;/b&gt; comment on what can happen when we pretend that we&#039;re &quot;not broken&quot; is right on the money. There aren&#039;t any caricatures here, though it might seem that way at first. (Can&#039;t say more without significant spoilers, so I&#039;ll stop now.)

@ &lt;b&gt;Nate H&lt;/b&gt;: You got it! (On &quot;confessional&quot; writers.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finished the final book in the trilogy earlier this afternoon. What Frank writes about isn&#8217;t cathartic for him alone, or for people from a fundamentalist/evangelical background alone. I&#8217;ve encountered a <b>lot</b> of the things he writes about in &#8220;nonreligious&#8221; circles &#8211; because he&#8217;s writing about human beings, period.</p>
<p>Overall, I spent a lot of time in LOLZ-land. But the heart of all of these books is quite serious&#8230; He addresses the perfectionism that&#8217;s dogged much of American Christianity in a way that I&#8217;ve seen nobody else do &#8211; probably because they&#8217;re afraid to make waves.</p>
<p>My guess is that Frank&#8217;s portrayals of the Beckers cut so close to the bone that many of us just shut him off. That&#8217;s sad.</p>
<p>Can I understand why many people would be upset by these books (and <i>Crazy for God</i>)? Absolutely. Is he lacking in compassion? From my POV, not at all. If you&#8217;ve been through a few shipwrecks and lived to tell the tale, you&#8217;ll appreciate what he&#8217;s done here. Is there TMI at times? yeah, but I&#8217;m not gonna hold it against him. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><b>iMonk&#8217;s</b> comment on what can happen when we pretend that we&#8217;re &#8220;not broken&#8221; is right on the money. There aren&#8217;t any caricatures here, though it might seem that way at first. (Can&#8217;t say more without significant spoilers, so I&#8217;ll stop now.)</p>
<p>@ <b>Nate H</b>: You got it! (On &#8220;confessional&#8221; writers.)</p>
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		<title>By: Nate H.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-359389</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-359389</guid>
		<description>It seems like more and more of these kinds of fictions are finding a big mainstream audience. I recently finished three very good books of this sort. The first was Home Remedies by Angela Pneuman. Much of it is set in Kentucky. The second was The End of the Striaght and Narrow by David Mcglynn. They are more ambitious than the stories in Home Remedies and very satisfying. The third and probably best is In the Devil&#039;s Territory by Kyle Minor. Those stories are long and very heartbreaking. 

I think that Frank Schaeffer ushered in the possibility that these kinds of writers could be taken seriously even though there is no place for them among the people who read &quot;Christian&quot; books. The Catholics have always had their artists, but now the evangelicals have them too. Be afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like more and more of these kinds of fictions are finding a big mainstream audience. I recently finished three very good books of this sort. The first was Home Remedies by Angela Pneuman. Much of it is set in Kentucky. The second was The End of the Striaght and Narrow by David Mcglynn. They are more ambitious than the stories in Home Remedies and very satisfying. The third and probably best is In the Devil&#8217;s Territory by Kyle Minor. Those stories are long and very heartbreaking. </p>
<p>I think that Frank Schaeffer ushered in the possibility that these kinds of writers could be taken seriously even though there is no place for them among the people who read &#8220;Christian&#8221; books. The Catholics have always had their artists, but now the evangelicals have them too. Be afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-351584</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-351584</guid>
		<description>OK, it seems useless to continue in this long exchange just about this one topic, but I went to another compiuter, in a Public Internet Coffee and the same thing. I dont know, is strange and though in other cases I have seen that many such sites offerings does not work in Albania, this seems strange to be the case with GB. Anyway thanks. I can read many limited or Full previews like those of the Canon Press but for this it says No limited preview avaluable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, it seems useless to continue in this long exchange just about this one topic, but I went to another compiuter, in a Public Internet Coffee and the same thing. I dont know, is strange and though in other cases I have seen that many such sites offerings does not work in Albania, this seems strange to be the case with GB. Anyway thanks. I can read many limited or Full previews like those of the Canon Press but for this it says No limited preview avaluable.</p>
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		<title>By: e2c</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-351122</link>
		<dc:creator>e2c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-351122</guid>
		<description>I just tried it again, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=mJIKlq2v6WAC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=crazy+for+god&amp;ei=AJ1jSddHk9iVBNXPwYsI&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the book is definitely there&lt;/a&gt;. Is it possible that you&#039;ve got some kind of software problem going on? (malware, etc.)

Fwiw, I&#039;m 2/3ds of the way through &lt;i&gt;Portofino&lt;/i&gt; and have been laughing myself silly! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just tried it again, and <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=mJIKlq2v6WAC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=crazy+for+god&amp;ei=AJ1jSddHk9iVBNXPwYsI" rel="nofollow">the book is definitely there</a>. Is it possible that you&#8217;ve got some kind of software problem going on? (malware, etc.)</p>
<p>Fwiw, I&#8217;m 2/3ds of the way through <i>Portofino</i> and have been laughing myself silly! <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-351074</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-351074</guid>
		<description>Thanks but I dont know, it may have been removed because when I put Crazy for God there (GB) there is no limited preview</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks but I dont know, it may have been removed because when I put Crazy for God there (GB) there is no limited preview</p>
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		<title>By: e2c</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-350197</link>
		<dc:creator>e2c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-350197</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Leonard&lt;/b&gt;, just try Google Book Search. There&#039;s a good deal of text there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Leonard</b>, just try Google Book Search. There&#8217;s a good deal of text there.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-350038</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-350038</guid>
		<description>I have not read the books but it seems to be a nice and kind review. Can you please tell me where I can read a part of Crazy for God on Goggle books, since I dont see any limited offer of this book there. Thanks 
Happy New Year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read the books but it seems to be a nice and kind review. Can you please tell me where I can read a part of Crazy for God on Goggle books, since I dont see any limited offer of this book there. Thanks<br />
Happy New Year!</p>
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		<title>By: e2c</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-348336</link>
		<dc:creator>e2c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-348336</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;... I havenâ€™t read a page that made me feel Frank had any disrespect for what God did there.&lt;/i&gt;

Nor will you, I think. Though I have to say that many of my personal impressions of L&#039;Abri (and of some of the people who were there when i was) have - perhaps not surprisingly - been (for me) validated by Frank&#039;s own recollections of the place. That &lt;b&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/b&gt; mean that I&#039;m somehow &quot;against&quot; L&#039;Abri - far from it, in fact. 

Frank, just in case you drop in here again, I&#039;d like to say &quot;thanks&quot; for your perspective, and (not coincidentally) for helping me realize that I got a lot right after all. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230; I havenâ€™t read a page that made me feel Frank had any disrespect for what God did there.</i></p>
<p>Nor will you, I think. Though I have to say that many of my personal impressions of L&#8217;Abri (and of some of the people who were there when i was) have &#8211; perhaps not surprisingly &#8211; been (for me) validated by Frank&#8217;s own recollections of the place. That <b>doesn&#8217;t</b> mean that I&#8217;m somehow &#8220;against&#8221; L&#8217;Abri &#8211; far from it, in fact. </p>
<p>Frank, just in case you drop in here again, I&#8217;d like to say &#8220;thanks&#8221; for your perspective, and (not coincidentally) for helping me realize that I got a lot right after all. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Obed</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-348333</link>
		<dc:creator>Obed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-348333</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Frank was on Terri Grossâ€™ â€œFresh Airâ€ less than a month ago.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Frank was also on Steve Brown, Etc a few months ago, it&#039;s easily found in SBE&#039;s archives.  I had first heard him on SBE and then later on Fresh Air.  While I absolutely love that show and Terri Gross&#039; interviews, I really got the impression (not the first time) that she doesn&#039;t really &quot;get&quot; people of faith.  She asked Frank why his rejection of Fundamentalism didn&#039;t lead to atheism.  I loved Frank&#039;s response.  It was something to the effect of &quot;If I were to consider atheism I&#039;d have to pray about it first.&quot;  Really made me laugh (in a good way).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Frank was on Terri Grossâ€™ â€œFresh Airâ€ less than a month ago.</p></blockquote>
<p>Frank was also on Steve Brown, Etc a few months ago, it&#8217;s easily found in SBE&#8217;s archives.  I had first heard him on SBE and then later on Fresh Air.  While I absolutely love that show and Terri Gross&#8217; interviews, I really got the impression (not the first time) that she doesn&#8217;t really &#8220;get&#8221; people of faith.  She asked Frank why his rejection of Fundamentalism didn&#8217;t lead to atheism.  I loved Frank&#8217;s response.  It was something to the effect of &#8220;If I were to consider atheism I&#8217;d have to pray about it first.&#8221;  Really made me laugh (in a good way).</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-time-to-run-away-and-look-back-frank-schaeffers-calvin-becker-trilogy-considered/comment-page-1#comment-348316</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2683#comment-348316</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read any criticisms of the work of L&#039;abri in any of the books. TMI about those doing the work? That&#039;s for the reader to decide.

But look, I had a defining experience in my home church and I&#039;ll tell you right now I don&#039;t want to know this level of information about the people who discipled me. And I work at a ministry that has helped thousands of students, and I doubt that they want to know all my problems. (That&#039;s why this blog has gotten me in trouble this year.)

But is that part of the whole truth? Does it come alongside those experiences and people the spirit used? Yes, and often for greater good than we imagine.

The Becker&#039;s don&#039;t come to grips with their humanity easily. Calvin&#039;s &quot;growing pains&quot; are the means by which they come to see many of their own issues that evangelical culture wouldn&#039;t allow to be voiced.

I praise the Lord for all those good experiences at L&#039;abri, and I haven&#039;t read a page that made me feel Frank had any disrespect for what God did there. But his views of the humanity of his family are part of the human story- his story- that I believe it&#039;s his right and place to tell. I know many disagree, but that&#039;s my two cents on it.

peace

ms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read any criticisms of the work of L&#8217;abri in any of the books. TMI about those doing the work? That&#8217;s for the reader to decide.</p>
<p>But look, I had a defining experience in my home church and I&#8217;ll tell you right now I don&#8217;t want to know this level of information about the people who discipled me. And I work at a ministry that has helped thousands of students, and I doubt that they want to know all my problems. (That&#8217;s why this blog has gotten me in trouble this year.)</p>
<p>But is that part of the whole truth? Does it come alongside those experiences and people the spirit used? Yes, and often for greater good than we imagine.</p>
<p>The Becker&#8217;s don&#8217;t come to grips with their humanity easily. Calvin&#8217;s &#8220;growing pains&#8221; are the means by which they come to see many of their own issues that evangelical culture wouldn&#8217;t allow to be voiced.</p>
<p>I praise the Lord for all those good experiences at L&#8217;abri, and I haven&#8217;t read a page that made me feel Frank had any disrespect for what God did there. But his views of the humanity of his family are part of the human story- his story- that I believe it&#8217;s his right and place to tell. I know many disagree, but that&#8217;s my two cents on it.</p>
<p>peace</p>
<p>ms</p>
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