Comments on: A Theological Announcement….Sort of

By: fws

fws — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:52:57 +0000

question for I monk that is only slightly (I hope! ) off thread:

My understanding is that Lutherans are the only christian sect that believes that faith is planted in the heart by baptism, ie, that babies a few days old, are given faith in baptism. I donÂ´t think that roman catholics believe this or anglicans or anyone else so far as I can tell…. is this your understanding as well? I have be curious about this for a while. Are Lutherans truly outliers on this point?

This is how Lutherans understand the Nicean Creed btw where it says “one baptism for the remission of sins”. remission of sins could not happen in baptism (following Lutheran thinking) without water baptism being identical to spirit baptism and so the holy spirit working through the word connected to the water and actually effecting the new birth and creation of faith in the heart.

By: fws

fws — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:45:33 +0000

my understanding I monk, is that the anglicans were pretty lutheran in their understanding of baptism and the lords supper under cranmer, and the original 39 articles were meant to reflect this, but also provide some wiggle room to understanding things in other ways.

By: fws

fws — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:43:18 +0000

Jerry a question for you:

IF Jesus had really meant to say that the bread and wine at the last supper were really and truly and actually ALSO his body and blood, that very blood shed on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, how would the words where Jesus instituted the supper as quoted by st paul, need to be different to force you to understand what he said as being literal and not metaphorical?

i would be very curious to know.

By: Carmichael

Carmichael — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:28:11 +0000

A sizable portion of the scholarly community seems to believe that much, if not most, of the material attributed to Ignatius of Antioch consists of 4th and 5th century forgeries.

By: jerry

jerry — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:33:07 +0000

Don’t you wish you could reply to them all. I take the traditional Protestant view of the Lords supper. As I read scripture, I make a habit of looking for patterns. I believe Jesus is/was God. He was also a teacher/rabbi and therefore taught in that vein. Jesus called himself a lion, lamb, rock, stone, gate, food, word, light, etc, when he was clearly not physically any of these. He calls us sheep ,if you are reading this and are actually a sheep please include this in your response and I will re-think my position. I understand that there is spiritual siginificance to the teaching that transcends the specific word he chooses, but come to the conclusion that his reference to his body and blood are just that, metaphores, that he uses throughout his teachings. Since you can easily find dozens of these representations in scripture, I struggle with sorting out this perticular one as literal.

By: nathan

nathan — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:36:27 +0000

imonk,

you should read some Richard Hooker…

he gave us Anglicans the baseline understanding of eucharist…it’s a position that seeks to reframe the conversation away from zwingli types and transubs (RCC/anglo-catholics) on either pole.

it was also a position articulated so that people would stop killing each other over this discussion…

By: Roger - Australia

Roger - Australia — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:00:52 +0000

I define myself as Protestant Evangelical NOS, and have attended Australian Baptist Churches (and the occasional Church of Christ church) over the last 17 years.

In recent times I have found myself craving more ceremony and even a little liturgy (shock horror). I find that in the historic evangelical revulsion to liturgy as a sign of corrupt episcopy, something has been lost. My church will happily acknowledge secular festivals such as Valentine’s Day, Father’s Day, Mother’s Day, etc and yet completely ignore Christian festivals and observances such as Advent, Palm Sunday and Lent.

I have recently read “Ancient-Future Time” by the late Robert Webber and found it fascinating and inspiring. I have undertaken to personally observe traditional Christian festivals such as Advent, Epiphany and Lent in 2009/2010 and may even venture into Anglican lectionary and the Book of Common Prayer (gasp, shock, faint!).

I have started blogging my experiences on my blog “Faith Interface”: http://www.faithinterface.com.au/books-im-reading/ancient-future-time-robert-e-webber

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:55 +0000

Michael,

There are a handful of Baptists who have been “rethinking” the traditional view of Baptists and the “sacraments’ – including, of course, the Lord’s supper. Historically speaking – based on the earliest Baptist confessions of faith – there is not just one Baptist view of the supper but many. Some early English Baptists viewed the Supper as a sacrament which had “regeneartive” power (akin to real presence) others expressed the contemporary “popular” Baptist view.

Some of those Baptists who are revisiting the Lord’s Supper have abandoned the “popular” Baptist view – claiming that the sacramental view is the more faithfully “christian” view – nevermind whether it is “baptist” or not. These days I tend to agree with them. Moreover, given that there is – in the earliest Baptist confessions – no uniform confessional agreement as to the nature and theology of the Supper, to claim to be able to find the historical roots of the the Baptist view of the supper is a bit of a non sequitur.

By: iMonk

iMonk — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:20:20 +0000

Amen.

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:19:07 +0000

I found it very interesting that Sara Miles, who went on to write the book Take This Bread was not even a Christian when she, on impulse, walked into an Episcopalian church that was celebrating the Eucharist and she also took the bread and wine and had an spiritual “experience” that forever changed her life and enriched the lives of many around her.

As important as I think it is to understand the Christian faith within whatever tradition we are in, I sometimes wish that Catholics priests would announce before Communion, “If you believe that this bread and this wine is truly the body and blood of our Lord Jesus and you wish to take up your cross and follow Jesus until you, too, are taken up in glory, then you are welcome to receive.” So, it would still have some guidelines in accordance with the warning that the Apostle Paul gave about people not knowing what they are doing when they receive the body and blood of Jesus, but it also welcomes all who wish to come forward with the belief that they are truly receiving Jesus.

That’s just my thoughts on it. I will continue happily receiving Communion in the Catholic church anyway.