Comments on: A Prayer of Martin Luther

By: Bror Erickson

Bror Erickson — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:52:52 +0000

Eclectic Christian,
I would steer you away from either position. I mean as a Lutheran it annoys me that you don’t understand there is a third position, a much better position, the one that actually kicked off the reformation.

By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell

Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:44:05 +0000

Hi Bror,

I don’t quite understand why you think that my understanding of faith is inconsistent with Romans 10. Sure Faith comes by hearing. You can’t have faith in something you know nothing about.

But to close the circle a bit, I would like to agree with you in affirming the work of the Holy Spirit in prompting human hearts. I still don’t have a clear enough of an understanding of how this works to take a strong Arminian or Calvinist position on it.

By: Bror Erickson

Bror Erickson — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:03:23 +0000

I honestly don’t know how you can read it that way. It is just painfully redundant. Than and it does not jive well with Rom 10, that faith come from hearing…
But you are probably right we probably wont solve it here. There is no debate on my part that after faith is given it is ours. It just wasn’t there before the Holy Spirit went to work on us.

By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell

Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:07:05 +0000

See my comment above. Faith is not a work, it is our heart response to God’s grace.

By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell

Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:04:29 +0000

I would interpret Ephesians 2 differently. Salvation is the gift. Grace is how it is given, faith is how it is received.

Galations 2 makes in clear that it is our faith in Christ that completes the circle of relationship.

Galations 2:16 – Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

This lines up well with Hebrews 11.

One of the reasons why I am not a Calvinist or Lutheran.

But I don’t think we will solve that historical debate here.

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:34:48 +0000

Thanks for that link, Christopher. It was interesting to read that article. I am reading the Pope’s book Jesus of Nazareth and he is a very accessible writer to an “average” person like me. He wanted to focus on the mission of Jesus so his book goes from Jesus’ Baptism to the Transfiguration. He wanted to make sure that his understanding of Jesus was written up in a way to refute some modern-day versions of Jesus that have him being just a liberal rabbi, a very moral person, etc. He also says in the introduction that the book does not come from the “magisterium,” but is his personal search and understanding of Jesus. He says anyone is free to disagree with him! The book doesn’t even have the “impramatur” seal on it. (But hey, he’s the Pope. I think we KNOW he isn’t going to say anything against the Catholic teachings!)

Pope Benedict XVI says in the introduction that he is getting old and wanted to make sure this part was published. If he is still alive, he will then publish a book about the birth of Jesus and about the cross and resurrection. I hope he lives for a few more years!

I think the Pope would find Luther to be a very sincere man, one who was dismayed at the corruptions going on at the time within the Church. The Church did need to get cleaned up. I also think some non-Catholics sometimes forget how close Luther was to the basic teachings of the Catholic Church. In terms of the basics, he never left those teachings.

By: Christopher Lake

Christopher Lake — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:32:48 +0000

Martha,

In one of his “general audience” teachings from November of last year, Pope Benedict had something very nice indeed to say about Martin Luther. Check it out here: http://www.zenit.org/article-24309?l=english

It’s amazing. Six months ago, I was a convinced Reformed Baptist. Now, after having read homilies such as this one from the Pope (and after having done *much* other study, including a re-examination of Paul’s teaching in Romans and Galatians– “justified by faith apart works from the Law” doesn’t necessarily mean apart from *all* good works!), I am seriously questioning whether the Reformation was truly needed. Yes, there were undoubtedly problems and abuses in the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages, but I don’t know that an actual schism was needed. More and more, I don’t see myself being a Protestant much longer, even as I know that many of my Reformed friends will likely pronounce me unregenerate….

By: dumb ox

dumb ox — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:42:19 +0000

I think we need to remember that we are justified by God’s grace through faith. It is not our faith that justifies us, or else faith would become a saving work, and the Christian life would be reduced to merely nodding ones head in agreement to particular doctrines.

By: Bror Erickson

Bror Erickson — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:34:45 +0000

Eclectic Christian,
Sure our faith does have an important role. But when it comes right down to it, that too is a gift of God. So I’m not sure that we contribute that either. It too is the work of the Holy Spirit. At least that is how I read Ephesians 2.

By: Matthew Johnston

Matthew Johnston — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:31:14 +0000

Yeah I would not necessarily agree with him on everything – but on alot of things.

I would hope to never find anyone I deem “accurate” in everything theological – man is falliable.

What areas do you, personally, find CJ inaccurate?