Comments on: A Parable for our Seeker-Sensitive, Purpose-Driven, Church Growth Oriented Friends

By: Rita

Rita — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:49:07 +0000

yikes!!

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.”
Matthew 13:13-16

God Bless you!!

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 03:31:26 +0000

Interesting article….

By: T.J.

T.J. — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:18:26 +0000

This hits home in a painful way. I went to my old church just last night. It was youth night and I was shocked to see that the youth had a “show” prior to the servfice starting. The kids sang You can’t hurry love, Can’t buy me Love, I’d like to teach the world to sing, Butterfly kisses (totally mocking marriage at the end of the song ) and it seemed like I had entered Mars instead of a worship serice. No one’s heart was prepared to enter into the Presence of the Lord…it was comedy, fluff, entertainment and I was grieved. The pastors’ daughters seemed like lounge singers. WHen worship finally DID begin not one song mentioned JESUS…HIS NAME was absent. At the end of the message, with all those youth sitting there no call for repentence was given…no call to surrender your life to Jesus, repent and make Him Lord. I was stunned. The place the Lord had led me to when I first rededicated my life to Him has become an entertainment zone. The pastor and assistant pastor’s sons now play rock n roll songs in the bars…they have big numbers , are considered a mega church and are doing much in the way of serving…but WHERE IS JESUS? Sadly, it seems like they are doing all of this in their own name.

By: Calvin

Calvin — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:48:09 +0000

I’m clearly way late to this conversation. Nevertheless I agree with Wondering What’s Better above. The old guard wasn’t really educating anymore. Something did have to be done. As it turns out the New Educators aren’t really the thing to go with, but they are correct when they say that times have changed and we can’t do things exactly like they used to be done. So I think it’s somewhat of a both/and, rather than an either/or.

By: Attie

Attie — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:15:31 +0000

As a Reformed Calvinist and mainline protestant, I also read this blog. I am actually quite proud of my theological heritage. Maybe someone could enlighten me on the debate regarding “open theism”. Allthough I am not sure that I will read it.

In our hearts some of us (Reformed Calvinists) do have a burning desire to reach our generation and the next generation for Christ. Never easy.

In my country 50% of the people do not have work and do not have a regular income. 98% of the people in my country will never have the privilege of reading this blog, because they do not have access to a computer or the internet. But they do need the truth of salvation in Christ, but with their hungry stomachs rumbling for food,(Is that the right expression? – English is my second language) they cannot hear a word I’m saying about a God who loved the world so much that He sent His Son. So we feed them and we learn to love them. As we give them food, we earn the right to be heard. And once we have earned the right, we preach the gospel. How do we know when we have earned the right to be heard? When the person asks: Why are you doing this? Sometimes it takes weeks.

First God feeds them (through us) and them God saves some of them (Through our preaching of the gospel). Full stomachs, hearing ears. Empty stomachs, deaf ears.

That, is the way we as Reformed Calvinist live theology. When we have the opportunity (mostly when others are sleeping) we read and discuss theology and we enjoy it very much.

Good theology? I don’t know. Maybe something about a great commission (make disciples) and the great commandment (love your neighbour – feed them if necesarry).

Regards.

By: Matt Enlow

Matt Enlow — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Excellent. And the story itself is not all that far off! Postman’s “Amusing Ourselves To Death”, anyone? All public discourse is being infused with (replaced by?) entertainment.

I wrote some related thoughts on my site a while back, but about–what else–math education:

http://matt.enlow.net/2003_04_01_archive.htm#92576931

By: Jim B.

Jim B. — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I hear you on this. I used to go to a small church that was singularly focused on getting “education” right. It was a mile down the road to a pioneer of the “new math” approach.

Now I attend the pioneer of the Christian Disneyland gospel. It was a hard decision since we used to refer to the church as the “Whore of Babylon”.

I found that the new church is increadibly focused on very clear lingo-free communication tied to challenging standards of “education”. It works for us. The messages are timely and very helpful. As for my old church, it turned into a cult.

My great dissapointment is that the new church (for the most part) doesn’t worship. They entertain. If they were singing secular words, I wouldn’t mind so much. But the secular music and sacred lyrics don’t work for me. A secular friend quipped to me that “The problem with Christian Rock is that it is neither.”

In another post, you mentioned how poorly Christians often communicate. This new church I go to does a much better job of not falling into that trap. Is there something that’s getting lost. Certainly. But, overall my new church is far better than my old one and its navel gazing insanity.

By: iMonk

iMonk — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I think there are a number of streams within the church growth movement that are beating the tides. Example : Mars Hill in Seattle. I love this guy’s preaching, and I can tell he is working at something.

But my strategy is to provoke the people moving in these circles to see the problems, and correct them. I join you in rejecting the “navel gazing” insanity. But I have to reject the trivializing of God. I mean, to devalue God in order to “talk” about Him is awful, and that’s what’s happening.

Look at Joel Osteen. America’s largest church. NO JESUS PREACHING at all. Yikes.

By: David Scott

David Scott — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Or the Crystal Cathedral-Rev. Schuller-His theology is more or less unitarian, though evangelicals still embrace him, which I personally found odd-Evangelicaloutpost.com had a good post or two on him, tho I’m too lazy to find them for you.

By: Totem to Temple

Totem to Temple — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Amen on the bait and switch part. I believed that the seeker sensitive movement is bait and switch Christianity http://www.availablelightonline.com/blog/index.php?p=477 http://www.availablelightonline.com/blog/index.php?p=273 http://www.availablelightonline.com/blog/index.php?p=284