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	<title>Comments on: A Long Pause from Impermanence</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Kaye</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-548336</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you, thank you once again for the helpful articles and comments.  As some have already mentioned, this blog is one of the places that provide a vital lifeline for some of us in the wilderness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, thank you once again for the helpful articles and comments.  As some have already mentioned, this blog is one of the places that provide a vital lifeline for some of us in the wilderness.</p>
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		<title>By: Damaris</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-546033</link>
		<dc:creator>Damaris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Eek!  What a vivid description!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eek!  What a vivid description!</p>
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		<title>By: greg r</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-546029</link>
		<dc:creator>greg r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-546029</guid>
		<description>that&#039;&#039;s a very creative response, widge44, that kind of flexibility should be rewarded over time.

Greg R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that&#8221;s a very creative response, widge44, that kind of flexibility should be rewarded over time.</p>
<p>Greg R</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-546021</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-546021</guid>
		<description>This morning my Bible reading happened to be Jeremiah 29. Jeremiahâ€™s letter to the exiles seemed so relevant to this discussion.

Many Christians feel that this earthly journey is akin to being exiled in enemy occupied territory. 

Many evangelical churches teach that exile will be brief because Jesus is returning any ol day now.   

Jeremiah told the exiles to build homes, plant gardens, pray for peace in their communities and draw closer to God. 

I believe that many who are uncomfortable with the present day evangelical church desire to do exactly that. They know that we must draw closer to God here and now, regardless of where _here_ happens to be. We should pray for peace in our communities. We should be actively involved in our communities. 

But I donâ€™t think we can wait for the churches to lead. Each of us needs to find ways to be the change we want to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This morning my Bible reading happened to be Jeremiah 29. Jeremiahâ€™s letter to the exiles seemed so relevant to this discussion.</p>
<p>Many Christians feel that this earthly journey is akin to being exiled in enemy occupied territory. </p>
<p>Many evangelical churches teach that exile will be brief because Jesus is returning any ol day now.   </p>
<p>Jeremiah told the exiles to build homes, plant gardens, pray for peace in their communities and draw closer to God. </p>
<p>I believe that many who are uncomfortable with the present day evangelical church desire to do exactly that. They know that we must draw closer to God here and now, regardless of where _here_ happens to be. We should pray for peace in our communities. We should be actively involved in our communities. </p>
<p>But I donâ€™t think we can wait for the churches to lead. Each of us needs to find ways to be the change we want to see.</p>
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		<title>By: widge44</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-546017</link>
		<dc:creator>widge44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-546017</guid>
		<description>I, as the mom in the family, tried and maintained for years the family table, but eventually got out-voted to where we are now using TV tables in front of the TV at dinner time.  However, I have watched how God can even use these shows to create family discussion and connection that we might not have had.  Technology allows us to pause a show and have the kind of conversation that I know bears the handprints of God.  He will show up wherever we invite him.  Thanks for this post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, as the mom in the family, tried and maintained for years the family table, but eventually got out-voted to where we are now using TV tables in front of the TV at dinner time.  However, I have watched how God can even use these shows to create family discussion and connection that we might not have had.  Technology allows us to pause a show and have the kind of conversation that I know bears the handprints of God.  He will show up wherever we invite him.  Thanks for this post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-545983</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-545983</guid>
		<description>This was a great and challenging post.  I sat in the cozy dining room of one church for several years.  A few years ago, I looked down at my plate and realized that what I thought was a nutritious and delicious plate of food was really just junk food and I was getting fat and proud.  That was largely my fault.  But then the people around me started throwing food and when the food ran out, they resorted to eating each other.  I couldn&#039;t handle it and retreated to the hallway where I still feel like I wander despite my attendance at another church...*sigh*

I don&#039;t comment very often here, but this site has been tremendously helpful to me over the last few years.  Thanks for what you all do to keep it going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a great and challenging post.  I sat in the cozy dining room of one church for several years.  A few years ago, I looked down at my plate and realized that what I thought was a nutritious and delicious plate of food was really just junk food and I was getting fat and proud.  That was largely my fault.  But then the people around me started throwing food and when the food ran out, they resorted to eating each other.  I couldn&#8217;t handle it and retreated to the hallway where I still feel like I wander despite my attendance at another church&#8230;*sigh*</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t comment very often here, but this site has been tremendously helpful to me over the last few years.  Thanks for what you all do to keep it going.</p>
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		<title>By: Damaris</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-545977</link>
		<dc:creator>Damaris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very profound, Danielle.  My experience has been similar, I think.  At the beginning of his book &quot;Orthodoxy,&quot;  Chesterton compares himself to a man who sets off from England to discover new land.  After much wandering he finds a green and pleasant isle and realizes that he has been brought back to where he started.  In the same way Chesterton looked everywhere for faith and finally found his way back to it.  Maybe our journeys will look like that from an eternal perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very profound, Danielle.  My experience has been similar, I think.  At the beginning of his book &#8220;Orthodoxy,&#8221;  Chesterton compares himself to a man who sets off from England to discover new land.  After much wandering he finds a green and pleasant isle and realizes that he has been brought back to where he started.  In the same way Chesterton looked everywhere for faith and finally found his way back to it.  Maybe our journeys will look like that from an eternal perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-545975</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-545975</guid>
		<description>I agree: for those who are in the wilderness, there is always the danger of getting too attached to our own questions, critiques, or wanderings. 

However, it is also true that the process, though not neat and not safe, can be productive. When I began my wilderness experience, I confronted a great many concerns and doubts I had no clue how to solve. I simply did not seem to have the resources, in my own tradition and native language, to understand what I was confronting, how to express it, or how to live faithfully as a Christian in the midst of it. Suddenly, I was adrift with no good way back and no map showing where to go.

Crisis or opportunity? I don&#039;t know: But along the way I have learned a lot from mainline Protestantism and Catholicism. I&#039;ve discovered liturgy and some aspects of larger Christian tradition and practice that have helped me immensely. I&#039;ve discovered a more sacramental and nuanced way to think about my faith. With these resources, I have finally learned how to say &quot;I believe - help thou my unbelief&quot; and move forward as a whole person rather than a contradicted one. Perhaps I should have gotten to this destination much sooner and perhaps not everything I did was constructive. But I have somewhere to hang my hat now. And I understand a few things I didn&#039;t -- couldn&#039;t -- have understood before.

I hope this makes sense!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree: for those who are in the wilderness, there is always the danger of getting too attached to our own questions, critiques, or wanderings. </p>
<p>However, it is also true that the process, though not neat and not safe, can be productive. When I began my wilderness experience, I confronted a great many concerns and doubts I had no clue how to solve. I simply did not seem to have the resources, in my own tradition and native language, to understand what I was confronting, how to express it, or how to live faithfully as a Christian in the midst of it. Suddenly, I was adrift with no good way back and no map showing where to go.</p>
<p>Crisis or opportunity? I don&#8217;t know: But along the way I have learned a lot from mainline Protestantism and Catholicism. I&#8217;ve discovered liturgy and some aspects of larger Christian tradition and practice that have helped me immensely. I&#8217;ve discovered a more sacramental and nuanced way to think about my faith. With these resources, I have finally learned how to say &#8220;I believe &#8211; help thou my unbelief&#8221; and move forward as a whole person rather than a contradicted one. Perhaps I should have gotten to this destination much sooner and perhaps not everything I did was constructive. But I have somewhere to hang my hat now. And I understand a few things I didn&#8217;t &#8212; couldn&#8217;t &#8212; have understood before.</p>
<p>I hope this makes sense!</p>
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		<title>By: greg r</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-545972</link>
		<dc:creator>greg r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-545972</guid>
		<description>ooops, that shoud be &quot;desert wandering&quot;......but &quot;dessert wandering&quot;  is probably a LOT more fun......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ooops, that shoud be &#8220;desert wandering&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;but &#8220;dessert wandering&#8221;  is probably a LOT more fun&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: greg r</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-long-pause-from-impermanence-2/comment-page-1#comment-545967</link>
		<dc:creator>greg r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=10133#comment-545967</guid>
		<description>Some place along the way, I will have to decide, and whatever choice I make will involve compromising something.

I guess for many of us, we are in the process of deciding what are the negotiables, where are the areas that we can compromise, and where do we draw a line in the sand.  This is not easy.  Making things much harder are

1) the relationships we&#039;ve built along the way, even at churches where we are unsatisfied;  Even in my restlessness, GOD has put me in touch with some of the greatest people that walk the planet.  It&#039;s probably largely because of these friendships that I&#039;ve stayed as long as I have.  These friendships, built on discipleship, have given me much hope and encouragement that help me get through church.... sorry if that&#039;s too snarky for some. 

2) for some of us, the choices we&#039;d make as a single person are not as quickly made married.  Maybe this is just a cop out (I&#039;m open to that possibility), but I have to involve and include my lovely wife of 14 yrs in my dessert wandering......is that worth it ??   So far, not enough to church shop, but I&#039;ve come very close, and may yet take that route.  

End of ramble: I appreciate all the thoughts on this post, and I agree that at some point we have to move beyond merely a protest of something, but I am DAILY grateful to have a forum to work this stuff out with brothers and sisters who know what I&#039;m going through and don&#039;t just tell me to get holy and snap out of it.  

Greg R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some place along the way, I will have to decide, and whatever choice I make will involve compromising something.</p>
<p>I guess for many of us, we are in the process of deciding what are the negotiables, where are the areas that we can compromise, and where do we draw a line in the sand.  This is not easy.  Making things much harder are</p>
<p>1) the relationships we&#8217;ve built along the way, even at churches where we are unsatisfied;  Even in my restlessness, GOD has put me in touch with some of the greatest people that walk the planet.  It&#8217;s probably largely because of these friendships that I&#8217;ve stayed as long as I have.  These friendships, built on discipleship, have given me much hope and encouragement that help me get through church&#8230;. sorry if that&#8217;s too snarky for some. </p>
<p>2) for some of us, the choices we&#8217;d make as a single person are not as quickly made married.  Maybe this is just a cop out (I&#8217;m open to that possibility), but I have to involve and include my lovely wife of 14 yrs in my dessert wandering&#8230;&#8230;is that worth it ??   So far, not enough to church shop, but I&#8217;ve come very close, and may yet take that route.  </p>
<p>End of ramble: I appreciate all the thoughts on this post, and I agree that at some point we have to move beyond merely a protest of something, but I am DAILY grateful to have a forum to work this stuff out with brothers and sisters who know what I&#8217;m going through and don&#8217;t just tell me to get holy and snap out of it.  </p>
<p>Greg R</p>
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