Comments on: The Lessons of Two Prayers: Warren and Robinson

By: Pastor PJ

Pastor PJ — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:39:44 +0000

Here is the link to the text of Rev. Lowery’s benediciton: http://m-pyre.blogspot.com/2009/01/rev-lowrys-benediction.html

By: Pastor PJ

Pastor PJ — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:38:58 +0000

Frankly, both prayers seemed a little preachy in their delivery and more like speeches than prayers. Both could take lessons from Rev. Lowery who used wonderful scriptural images and a playful heart to deliver both a sound and prophetic benediction. Now that’s some praying!

By: e2c

e2c — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:09:37 +0000

Ah, forgot: listening – *really* listening – to someone is a lot different than agreeing wit5h everything they say. Am sure Robinson and I disagree on many things, but that doesn’t mean I have the “right” to ignore him, let alone belittle him – or anyone else. (You, too.)

By: e2c

e2c — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:06:45 +0000

*I* didn’t “put them forth. That’s a quote from Robinson, not me. It does not speeak for me, but for him.

Cool?

And actually, I think a moment of silence is a pretty good idea, compared to the ruckus that public prayers seem to engender…

By: Michael the little boot

Michael the little boot — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:54:20 +0000

“Real tolerance: Let each person pray to the God they believe in, and don’t try to throw a blanket over everyone.”

I wonder, if this is “real” tolerance, why we pray at public events at all. Going by your definition, we can never hope to have a public prayer without it being a public blanketing. We must return to the moment of silence – unless we’re in church where everyone is sure they believe in the same God – if we go by the parameters for “real” tolerance you put forth above.

Apologies if what I said is in the comments somewhere else. Lots of comments to go through!

By: e2c

e2c — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:53:01 +0000

@ Jeff M: I think the only person who can answer those questions is Robinson himself. He gave an interesting interview that was published on Beliefnet earlier this week.

I’m sure Robinson and I disagree on many things, but that said, I was very pleasantly surprised by his answers regarding a number of things about his now-infamous prayer. I honestly believe that lots of people – and I’m including myself here – tend to have knee-jerk reactions to him. For myself, I *know* that my own tendency to judge him as “wrong” has led to my not being willing to listen to him.

And then, amid all the tensions at the Lambeth Conference last summer, I saw some interviews with him that surprised me – jolted me, really. Because he was about 180 degrees away from being prejudiced toward those who opposed him there.

And that’s all made me want to stop and take a 2nd look at what he says. That, in turn, has led to repentance for my own prejudices, and an awareness that he has some very worthwhile things to say that *need to be listened to by people on all sides of the debate re. homosexuality, the ECUSA, splits in Anglicanism, and much more. *All* of the movers and shakers in this have good points. Now if only they could start talking with (rather than at) each other, the current deadlock might be a little more resolvable, and far less bitter.

That’s my personal take, at least… am not intending to pass judgment on anyone commenting here, or elsewhere, or on anyone in the Anglican communion. (Fwiw, I’m not Anglican/Episcopal myself, so I don’t have any horses in this race. )

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 04:40:55 +0000

Well, I guess the real question is, who is Robinson praying to? I have a hard time figuring it out based on his use of the god of many understandings and his later plea to that god to “Bless us with compassion and generosity – remembering that every religion’s God judges us by the way we care for the most vulnerable in the human community, whether across town or across the world.”
I am not questioning his salvation, just his logic and perhaps his theology. Isn’t this an insult to the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob? In light of passages like Deuteronomy 32:15-16 is it wise for a prayer offered to the One and Only God of the Universe that Robinson would claim to be referring to by the phrase god of many understandings need to appeal to the judgment of other Gods?
I simply think what Robinson is doing is not healthy or Biblical. It doesn’t encourage people to seek the God who is; it allows them to continue with whatever the god of their many understandings is understood to be.

By: e2c

e2c — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:14:41 +0000

My point was that Paul himself was once mis-guided. And maybe because he remembers that fact, he has an understanding that God is working in everybody’s life; the details may differ but that fact remains the same.

Exactly. Which is one of many reasons that I wish people would look more closely at the complete text of Gene Robinson’s prayer. There’s a lot of good stuff there, especially in the section where he prayed for the Obamas.

By: Mich

Mich — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:08:21 +0000

“Paul recognizing the altar to the unknown God is not the same as Paul inviting everyone to pray to the unknown God.”

I agree. That wasn’t my point. My point was that Paul himself was once mis-guided. And maybe because he remembers that fact, he has an understanding that God is working in everybody’s life; the details may differ but that fact remains the same. Paul can afford enough humility to say “I remember when my idea of serving God meant holding the coats of those who would stone another human being to death and I encouraged others to do the same. How mis-guided can one get?” He can afford enough compassion to realize that perhaps those who are praying to that unknown God think they are seeking Him in the same way that he thought he was. Reminds me of that G.K. Chesterton quote: “Every man who knocks on the door of a brothel is looking for God.”

These are the things that I keep having to remember when I react to others’ behaviours/prayers, etc. In fact, I still have to keep in mind that my spiritual “GPS” isn’t perfect; I’m definitely a work in progress. I’m in complete agreement that the one point of reference is Jesus, absolutely.

“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ” 1 Corinthians 13:1

Somedays, I feel like a clanging cymbal. I suppose that was my point. How often have I “straightened out” somebody else’s thinking and it was more of an intellectual exercise rather than one of the heart?

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:13:39 +0000

Maybe today Paul could say, “I see you honor the ‘god of many understandings.’ Now what you worship as something vague I am going to proclaim to you.”
My problem with Robinson or any others who treat Christianity this way is that it leaves people without a clue that they are wrong. Paul took the opportunity that was presented by the people having an “undefined god” and defined who God is. He told them something rather than leaving them with nothing but a good feeling that they were at least trying.