Comments on: A Contrarian Manifesto for the Church Growth Debate http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:35:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Michael K. Rose http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-318 Michael K. Rose Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-318 Bro. Michael--have been lurking for a few months on IM and related sites; have just found a small (35 person?) church that is imperfect but too small to have big ambitions like the "First Baptist" SBC church we lingered in for the past 9 months that is determined to drink the PDL kool-aid. God bless you. We would not agree on everything--I have not yet been able to discard southern dispensationalism or my Ryrie Study Bible; however, I am somewhat confused at the war between conservative dispies and reformed types--we have so much more in common, including (to my way of thinking) a common ground in the doctrines of sovereign grace . . . at least my flavor of dispensationalism is completely comfortable with the 5 points. Anyway, you have ministered to my wife and me as we have wrestled with the schizophrenic position of our former SBC pastor raising Piper-esque sovereign grace in one hand while embracing PDC and Warren in the other. Every SBC church on the Gulf coast of Texas seems either to have done their "40 days," to be doing their "40 days" or to be advertising the upcoming "40 days of purpose." Thank you, again. Grace and peace-- mkr Bro. Michael–have been lurking for a few months on IM and related sites; have just found a small (35 person?) church that is imperfect but too small to have big ambitions like the “First Baptist” SBC church we lingered in for the past 9 months that is determined to drink the PDL kool-aid. God bless you. We would not agree on everything–I have not yet been able to discard southern dispensationalism or my Ryrie Study Bible; however, I am somewhat confused at the war between conservative dispies and reformed types–we have so much more in common, including (to my way of thinking) a common ground in the doctrines of sovereign grace . . . at least my flavor of dispensationalism is completely comfortable with the 5 points. Anyway, you have ministered to my wife and me as we have wrestled with the schizophrenic position of our former SBC pastor raising Piper-esque sovereign grace in one hand while embracing PDC and Warren in the other. Every SBC church on the Gulf coast of Texas seems either to have done their “40 days,” to be doing their “40 days” or to be advertising the upcoming “40 days of purpose.” Thank you, again.

Grace and peace–

mkr

]]> By: Cassie Blair http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-319 Cassie Blair Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-319 Michael, you've written the "mother of all church growth critiques." Your disgust is palpable, and I feel your pain! Keep up the good work! Michael, you’ve written the “mother of all church growth critiques.” Your disgust is palpable, and I feel your pain! Keep up the good work!

]]> By: Dean http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-320 Dean Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-320 It's worse than you said it was - and it ain't got a thing to do with the old "hypocrites in the Church" complaint. There AIN'T NO hypocrites in The Church. Neither are we lazy or selfish or nasty or bigoted or unteachable. We do not need "another whipping" from the pulpit, and not a single thing of note has changed in Christendom since 4th century - except one thing. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Check out (likely) the OLDEST Christian website on the net - since 1992... (BBS days) Just Another Christian "US" 1 John 4:6 Main site front page www.apostasynow.com The Great Dream Book: <a href="http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html">http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html</a> (ed) It’s worse than you said it was – and it ain’t got a thing to do with the old “hypocrites in the Church” complaint. There AIN’T NO hypocrites in The Church. Neither are we lazy or selfish or nasty or bigoted or unteachable. We do not need “another whipping” from the pulpit, and not a single thing of note has changed in Christendom since 4th century – except one thing. 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Check out (likely) the OLDEST Christian website on the net – since 1992… (BBS days)

Just Another Christian
“US” 1 John 4:6
Main site front page
http://www.apostasynow.com

The Great Dream Book:
http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html

(ed)

]]> By: ericrigney http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-321 ericrigney Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-321 Wonderful article; your anger and frustration do nothing to diminish your point, which is powerful -- that's hard to do! Excellent. Wonderful article; your anger and frustration do nothing to diminish your point, which is powerful — that’s hard to do!
Excellent.

]]> By: Angus http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-322 Angus Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-322 BEHOLD! The MonKMan cometh! You have articulated my thoughts more thoroughly than I have been able to assemble them. This was better than the time you posted the "95 Reasons you won't wear a suit to church" on your office door. A certain Sid Vicious poster says it all bro – “Undermine their pompous authority – Reject Their Moral Standards – Make Anarchy and Disorder your Trademarks – cause as much chaos and disruption as possible – BUT DON”T LET THEM TAKE YOU ALIVE!” That poster hangs on my office door to this day. BEHOLD! The MonKMan cometh!

You have articulated my thoughts more thoroughly than I have been able to assemble them. This was better than the time you posted the “95 Reasons you won’t wear a suit to church” on your office door. A certain Sid Vicious poster says it all bro –

“Undermine their pompous authority – Reject Their Moral Standards – Make Anarchy and Disorder your Trademarks – cause as much chaos and disruption as possible – BUT DON”T LET THEM TAKE YOU ALIVE!”

That poster hangs on my office door to this day.

]]> By: Neb http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-323 Neb Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-323 Amen! I'm 40 and totally in agreement with you. This trend toward shallow churchiness is going to be tested in the fire soon. The growing intolerance for Christianity in the USA will eventually evolve into the persecution currently visited upon Christians elsewhere in the World. The real Church will settle underground where it is always strongest. Even now house churches are becoming the bastions of solid preaching and worship. Amen! I’m 40 and totally in agreement with you. This trend toward shallow churchiness is going to be tested in the fire soon. The growing intolerance for Christianity in the USA will eventually evolve into the persecution currently visited upon Christians elsewhere in the World. The real Church will settle underground where it is always strongest. Even now house churches are becoming the bastions of solid preaching and worship.

]]> By: Prester Scott http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-324 Prester Scott Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-324 Amen, and thank you. Amen, and thank you.

]]> By: Diane R. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-325 Diane R. Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-325 Fantastic! Preach it loud and preach it clear! And...many of us are climbing that hill to hold your arms up too. However, I am saddened to see that you had a bad Charismatic experience. I was forunate to have a great balanced Biblical one, although it was Pentecostal more than Charismatic(you can see some of my story in my Internet Monk forum comments). Fantastic! Preach it loud and preach it clear! And…many of us are climbing that hill to hold your arms up too.

However, I am saddened to see that you had a bad Charismatic experience. I was forunate to have a great balanced Biblical one, although it was Pentecostal more than Charismatic(you can see some of my story in my Internet Monk forum comments).

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-326 iMonk Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-326 My Charismatic experience is definately in the overall positve column, especially the early years. My recent experiences have been pretty disappointing though. <a href="http://www.internetmonk.com/pentecostal.html">http://www.internetmonk.com/pentecostal.html</a> My Charismatic experience is definately in the overall positve column, especially the early years. My recent experiences have been pretty disappointing though.

http://www.internetmonk.com/pentecostal.html

]]> By: Diane R. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-contrarian-manifesto-for-the-church-growth-debate/comment-page-1#comment-327 Diane R. Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=71#comment-327 Yes, I understand.....note that I said I am Pentecostal...the early Charismatic movement was very similar but today? Yikes! It is in outer space! Yes, I understand…..note that I said I am Pentecostal…the early Charismatic movement was very similar but today? Yikes! It is in outer space!

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