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	<title>Comments on: A Big Surprise, A Big Criticism, A Big Question: More Thoughts On The Place of Certainty</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: More Thoughts On The Place of Certainty &#124; Ephemeral Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-2#comment-495086</link>
		<dc:creator>More Thoughts On The Place of Certainty &#124; Ephemeral Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] internetmonk.com » Blog Archive » A Big Surprise, A Big Criticism, A Big Question: More Thoughts O.... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] internetmonk.com » Blog Archive » A Big Surprise, A Big Criticism, A Big Question: More Thoughts O&#8230;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eshu</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-310411</link>
		<dc:creator>Eshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the danger of saying, &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; only comes when people use that as a reason to stop trying to find out. Ignorance need not be permanent.

I guess it&#039;s an aspect of psychology - some people desire certainty to feel in control of their lives. That may be the main appeal of religion for them. To suggest (no doubt with some good arguments) that even religion is uncertain in places must be very unsettling for such people and will probably make you unpopular with them.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I told her that the process of making a decision is more important than getting answers from authority figures.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then I have great respect for you. Please don&#039;t stop thinking for yourself, asking questions and encouraging others to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the danger of saying, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; only comes when people use that as a reason to stop trying to find out. Ignorance need not be permanent.</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s an aspect of psychology &#8211; some people desire certainty to feel in control of their lives. That may be the main appeal of religion for them. To suggest (no doubt with some good arguments) that even religion is uncertain in places must be very unsettling for such people and will probably make you unpopular with them.</p>
<blockquote><p>I told her that the process of making a decision is more important than getting answers from authority figures.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then I have great respect for you. Please don&#8217;t stop thinking for yourself, asking questions and encouraging others to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: nedbrek</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-308343</link>
		<dc:creator>nedbrek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>terri, it should be obvious that we should not be exhausted.  Jesus is our rest.  The fruit of the Spirit is peace, joy, etc.

The fact that some Evangelicals are caught up in divining the &quot;perfect will&quot; is reflective of poor theology.

If we conform our thinking to God&#039;s will (as revealed in the Bible), then God gives us the desires of our hearts.  What we want is what God wants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>terri, it should be obvious that we should not be exhausted.  Jesus is our rest.  The fruit of the Spirit is peace, joy, etc.</p>
<p>The fact that some Evangelicals are caught up in divining the &#8220;perfect will&#8221; is reflective of poor theology.</p>
<p>If we conform our thinking to God&#8217;s will (as revealed in the Bible), then God gives us the desires of our hearts.  What we want is what God wants.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-308190</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nedbreak and Terri&gt;&gt;concerning certainty: Biblical teachings reveal the will of God as....&#039;none perishing but all coming to repentance.&#039;  But the term &#039;repentance&#039; is too broad for discussion here. A narrower point is to remind of the mostly common understanding of scripture related to the body as the Temple of God. If the true Christian is indeed indwelt by the Holy Spirit (God in form of the Third Person of the Trinity)...then He would care very much about how the body reflects Him.  &quot;1 Corinthians 6:15-17: &quot;15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?  shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?  God forbid.  16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.&quot;
Love you both!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nedbreak and Terri&gt;&gt;concerning certainty: Biblical teachings reveal the will of God as&#8230;.&#8217;none perishing but all coming to repentance.&#8217;  But the term &#8216;repentance&#8217; is too broad for discussion here. A narrower point is to remind of the mostly common understanding of scripture related to the body as the Temple of God. If the true Christian is indeed indwelt by the Holy Spirit (God in form of the Third Person of the Trinity)&#8230;then He would care very much about how the body reflects Him.  &#8220;<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+6%3A15-17" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 6:15-17">1 Corinthians 6:15-17</a>: &#8220;15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?  shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?  God forbid.  16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.&#8221;<br />
Love you both!</p>
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		<title>By: terri</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307705</link>
		<dc:creator>terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>nedbreak..

Your answer was brief and never really addressed the exhausting aspect of such a concept.  When I read your reply, what I hear is, &quot;Being exhausted by trying to figure &quot;everything&quot; out is normative for the christian life and par for the course.&quot;

If that&#039;s what you mean, I reject that. I don&#039;t believe that God cares about everything--like what kind of job I have, what school my kids go to, whether the coffee I bought was Free Trade, or not. Yet, these are the types of things that many sincere Christians have true angst over.  They believe that they can know the answer to these questions with a fair degree of certainty, and that if they make a &quot;wrong&quot; choice they&#039;re somehow not in the &quot;perfect will&quot; of God.

The christian life is one definitely meant for transformation. However, that comes not from knowing all the answers to all the right questions, but from trusting Christ&#039;s sufficiency for us.  

After all, didn&#039;t Jesus say: &quot;For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.&quot;

I resist attempts to carry more than is necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nedbreak..</p>
<p>Your answer was brief and never really addressed the exhausting aspect of such a concept.  When I read your reply, what I hear is, &#8220;Being exhausted by trying to figure &#8220;everything&#8221; out is normative for the christian life and par for the course.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s what you mean, I reject that. I don&#8217;t believe that God cares about everything&#8211;like what kind of job I have, what school my kids go to, whether the coffee I bought was Free Trade, or not. Yet, these are the types of things that many sincere Christians have true angst over.  They believe that they can know the answer to these questions with a fair degree of certainty, and that if they make a &#8220;wrong&#8221; choice they&#8217;re somehow not in the &#8220;perfect will&#8221; of God.</p>
<p>The christian life is one definitely meant for transformation. However, that comes not from knowing all the answers to all the right questions, but from trusting Christ&#8217;s sufficiency for us.  </p>
<p>After all, didn&#8217;t Jesus say: &#8220;For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.&#8221;</p>
<p>I resist attempts to carry more than is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: nedbrek</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307687</link>
		<dc:creator>nedbrek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>terri, isn&#039;t that what being a Christian means?  Being conformed into the image of Christ.  Having our minds transformed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>terri, isn&#8217;t that what being a Christian means?  Being conformed into the image of Christ.  Having our minds transformed?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Dee Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307653</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dee Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mike,

In reply to your comment, yes, I read the book you mentioned sometime back in the nineties. Other than remembering I liked it and read more Newbigin because of it, I can&#039;t recall much else. I&#039;ll now have to dig it out to see how much he may have influenced me. Thanks.

Michael</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>In reply to your comment, yes, I read the book you mentioned sometime back in the nineties. Other than remembering I liked it and read more Newbigin because of it, I can&#8217;t recall much else. I&#8217;ll now have to dig it out to see how much he may have influenced me. Thanks.</p>
<p>Michael</p>
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		<title>By: terri</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307260</link>
		<dc:creator>terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>nedbreak:&lt;i&gt;I think God cares about everything, although, in some cases, “what God wants” is the sames as what we want (as long as we are acting and thinking Biblically).&lt;/i&gt;


I mean this in all seriousness..don&#039;t you find the concept that God cares about &quot;everything&quot; exhausting? I mean if God cares about &quot;everything&quot; then it&#039;s up to us to constantly be on the right side of what he cares about....something which is not always evident and clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nedbreak:<i>I think God cares about everything, although, in some cases, “what God wants” is the sames as what we want (as long as we are acting and thinking Biblically).</i></p>
<p>I mean this in all seriousness..don&#8217;t you find the concept that God cares about &#8220;everything&#8221; exhausting? I mean if God cares about &#8220;everything&#8221; then it&#8217;s up to us to constantly be on the right side of what he cares about&#8230;.something which is not always evident and clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307235</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael,

I&#039;d assume that you&#039;re familiar with Newbigin&#039;s book, The Gospel in a Pluralist Society. He provides an important discussion on knowing and believing (it runs through the entire book) that correlates well with your excellent and thoughtful post. Thanks for a fine discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d assume that you&#8217;re familiar with Newbigin&#8217;s book, The Gospel in a Pluralist Society. He provides an important discussion on knowing and believing (it runs through the entire book) that correlates well with your excellent and thoughtful post. Thanks for a fine discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Brigitte</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-big-surprise-a-big-criticism-a-big-question-more-thoughts-on-the-place-of-certainty/comment-page-1#comment-307232</link>
		<dc:creator>Brigitte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Christopher Lake:

does the catechism quote I posted do anything for you?  Is that statement not calling for absolute certainty?  Is it not the most basic thing?

I like the analogy of the lamp.  Some things are fully in the light and very clearly discernible on which a person should make his stand.  Other things are farther and farther out of the light and more or less discernible.  There needs to be distinction.

There are items we should confess clearly and firmly. Other things we can leave open to discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher Lake:</p>
<p>does the catechism quote I posted do anything for you?  Is that statement not calling for absolute certainty?  Is it not the most basic thing?</p>
<p>I like the analogy of the lamp.  Some things are fully in the light and very clearly discernible on which a person should make his stand.  Other things are farther and farther out of the light and more or less discernible.  There needs to be distinction.</p>
<p>There are items we should confess clearly and firmly. Other things we can leave open to discussion.</p>
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