December 15, 2017

Another Look: Overrated — Expressing My Opinion

The irony is not lost on this author.

In this post I will share my opinion, stating my opinion that sharing opinions is overrated.

And I will publish it on a blog dedicated to giving people a forum for sharing their opinions.

So there.

As a young minister, I soon learned the truth of a quip that someone — I think it might have been Vance Havner — once made. He said that when people start complaining that the church ought to do something about a matter, they usually mean the pastor ought to say something.

For many Christians, words equal deeds.

Our measure of faithfulness is often described as “taking a stand” for one’s faith or for the right position on some issue. That means being willing to speak up and tell the truth, to take a public stand by saying something when you might be tempted to remain silent. If someone does that, he or she is considered a strong, vibrant follower of Jesus.

I don’t claim to know about other people around the world, but this seems to me to be another one of those peculiarly American characteristics with regard to how we think we should live out our faith. It is part of our personality. We are, by and large, an opinionated, outspoken people. And so we view Christian living through this lens. Christianity is about truth. Christian living means telling the truth. Boldly. Directly. Without shame. As we discussed in a recent post, Christians are constantly being told, “The most loving thing you can do is tell the truth.”

This has become our standard for faithful Christian living. The believer who speaks up for truth and right is the one we honor. The current climate, dominated by 24-hour news, Facebook and other social media, and other means of instant communication, has only exacerbated the tendency to equate words — even knee-jerk, disembodied words over a computer screen — with being upright and devoted to the Lord.

We’re not just talking about preachers here. Certainly many expect this from the pulpit. In fact, a large number of folks don’t even consider preaching to have occurred if sin is not strongly condemned, the moral evils of our culture excoriated, and strong opinions about one’s interpretation of doctrine advanced. But the same parishioners who endure the preachy preachers are are also being challenged themselves to be verbally engaged in the battle for truth. Witness. Testify. Say so. Tell the truth. Talk the talk. Take a stand. Be bold. Be unashamed. Open your mouth wide, and the Lord will fill it.

Overdone and overrated.

Certainly what we speak, and how we speak, and when we speak is an important part of our lives and our faith. The “Gospel” itself is an announcement to be proclaimed, discussed, explained, and shared in appropriate ways at appropriate times. The prophetic tradition of which we are heirs was made up of men and women specially chosen to hear and speak God’s word of righteousness as they called Israel to return to the Law and covenant. Christians take truth seriously.

We also have to take our culture into account. In free lands of the world like the U.S., we are afforded rights of free expression unknown throughout most of history. Because of the very nature of our free society, we will have opportunities to speak more, and perhaps we should.

Nevertheless, I worry about this undue emphasis on verbal Christianity.

I’ve engaged with many who think my concern is misplaced. However, if someone argues that the world is not shy about getting its immoral and idolatrous messages out and therefore we should be redoubling our efforts to speak and speak often on behalf of righteousness, I would counter with the words of the Apostle Paul, who wrote, “For the kingdom of God depends not on talk but on power” (1Cor. 4:20).

In context, Paul was explaining to the Corinthians that the false teachers leading them astray were “all talk.” On the other hand, he had sent Timothy to them on a personal, pastoral visit, and soon Paul would coming himself. Then the congregants in Corinth would see the difference. Paul’s words and even his letters were not the ultimate measure of his ministry. It was the “power” of Christ in him that shone through his personal presence, his pastoral care, and his involvement in their lives that would prove the difference. That would certainly involve words, but so much more. In the passage, he describes himself as their spiritual “father” (4:14-16), a vocation that goes far beyond speaking — all the way to love.

Others will argue that they are not speaking “the opinions of people” but the Word of God. They have chapter and verse to prove it. Please. Verbal-oriented Christianity so easily turns into opinionated Christianity.

“Speaking the truth” gets transformed into stating my opinion or interpretation of some “truth” or issue.

“Sharing the Gospel” becomes trying to persuade others of my doctrine and/or practice.

Those who “engage the culture” end up turning complex issues into simple black and white moral choices.

“Taking a stand” too often means not listening well to others and considering that any spirit of forbearance or compromise indicates surrender and defeat for God and his truth.

“Speaking up boldly” can indicate zeal without knowledge and the humility to own that what we don’t know far exceeds our current conclusions.

There is a place and time and way to speak.

This is the day to share my opinion about that.

Now it’s your turn.

Comments

  1. Susan Dumbrell says:

    I quote,
    Thomas Cramner.

    ‘Blessed Lord Jesus, who has caused all Holy Scripture to be written for our learning; grant us so to hear them, read, mark, learn and inwardly digest them, that we may embrace and ever hold fast to the blessed hope of everlasting life, which you have given us in our Saviour Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, One God, forever and ever. Amen’

    There is nothing left to say,. Cramner said it all.
    BCP, Sunday closest to Nov 16 Year A.

    Susan

  2. Steve Newell says:

    Our words and actions must be in sync. If our words are not supported by our actions, our words are not taken seriously at best and dismissed as hypocrisy at worst.

    James instructs us that our faith is both words and actions. While we are saved by faith in Christ, apart from works, our faith in Christ results in good works (James 2:14-26). Likewise Paul writes that we are created for good works in Christ (Eph. 2:1-10). Even Christ talked about good works is the result of faith in the parable of the Sheep and the Goats (Matthew 25:31-46).

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      If our words are not supported by our actions, our words are not taken seriously at best and dismissed as hypocrisy at worst.

      “You have a saying: ‘Knowledge is a three-edged sword.’
      We also have a saying: ‘PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!'”
      Babylon-5

      • Steve Newell says:

        “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.” I love B5. Thanks for making my day!

        • Love that. Most “truth”, if we’re honest about it, is nothing more than “strong opinion.” So it is indeed my side, their side, and the ACTUAL truth of the matter.

        • “The Future should have come with a warning label: ‘SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED’.”

  3. Adam Tauno Williams says:

    “””American characteristics with regard to how we think we should live out our faith. It is part of our personality. We are, by and large, an opinionated, outspoken people”””

    I do not want to be the nabob… but, no, I do not think so. As a neighborhood organizer, meeting coordinator, and someone who attents a lot of public meetings – – – I do not believe this. I used to. I do not now. I now see America as a land of abundant self-doubt and a lack of confidence. Getting people to speak-up is crazy hard.

    This makes America the playground of bullies. It may **sound as if** everyone is shouting; but nothing could be further from the truth. It is a few people who never stop shouting.

    It is a profoundly sad thing to observe; when you know the person in the audience who has a far more informed, nuanced, and considered perspective – and they won’t stand up to the guy who has been hogging the floor, and constantly interrupting public officials, for the better part of an hour.

    These experiences have caused a good amount of reflection/reinterrpretation of my chuch experience(s). The church is too often a safe-harbor for bullies.

    The verse “The worst are filled with passion, while the best lack all conviction” runs through my mind like an ear-worm.

    “””Because of the very nature of our free society, we will have opportunities to speak more, and perhaps we should.”””

    Especially *more* people should speak more.

    • Adam,

      I have sympathy with your point. What I am seeing at all levels, but especially young people, is that there are very large number of very passive people being bullied by a very small number of people with strong personalities. The strong are overwhelming the weak. By teaching young people “Have a positive attitude” and “The customer is always right”…, we are leaving them to be bullied by those who don’t have those standards.

      A side effect is that the people who are passive in school, work, church…. are taking out the frustrations by anonymously bullying others viewpoints on social media.

      • First – Don’t debate on social media… it is a fruitless activity…

        Second – to Adam’s point, people fear public speaking, and those that do get unnerved quite easily if encountering opposition while trying to get their point across in a public forum.

        Third – I love a good exchange of ideas, especially those that are different from mine – and if, we can both be civil through the exchange, we might both take away something we did not know or had not considered before.

        Also – blowhards – being right or left, religious or not, who only want to hear the sound of their own voice, are no fun to be around. Yep – I am the person who invites the Jehovah Witness and Mormon missionaries in for something to drink and a bit of good discussion…..

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      Getting people to speak-up is crazy hard.

      Because any nail that sticks up Gets Hammered Down HARD.

    • “I now see America as a land of abundant self-doubt and a lack of confidence. Getting people to speak-up is crazy hard.”

      …I take it you’ve never been to a Southern Baptist business meeting. Getting people to shut-up is crazy hard…..

    • –> “Getting people to speak-up is crazy hard.”

      I think there needs to be a qualifier or adjective in there:
      Humble people
      Reasonable people
      Gracious people
      Fence-sitter people
      Shy people
      Unsure people
      Introverted people

      Those are the ones who most need be heard, but least likely to speak up.

      • Adam Tauno Williams says:

        > Those are the ones who most need be heard, but least likely to speak up.

        Exactly. And we can do things to facilitate that, but we rarely do them. 🙁

      • Somehow I’m reminded of the recent Babylon Bee headline:
        ‘Praying Doesn’t Help Anything,’ Says Man Whose Idea Of Helping Is Trolling On Internet

    • “The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.”

      (Yes, I’ve read a poem. Try not to faint. 😉 )

    • Klasie Kraalogies says:

      Hmm – compared to people from other countries – no (with the possible exception of Russians, as well as Australians). Americans are much more outspoken than any other group I have worked with / had interaction with, with the 2 exceptions (and i have worked with a few….).

      Note – this is comparative.

      • I must agree with you Klasie. I have worked with people from all over the world for years. And comparatively speaking Americans have been more outspoken (Russians and Aussies to some degree as well).

        I think it is cultural

  4. john barry says:

    I believe the old maxim actions speak better than words apply to a great extent. In my opinion the dumbing down of America has led to the notion that all viewpoints, opinions and beliefs are created equal which is not the case. Loud does not mean insightful, lengthy does not mean correct and passion does not equal depth of knowledge. The sound bite age and five minute attention span we live in does not bode well for meaningful interchange. The 24/7 news cycle in the media and the comments sections on the internet lead to bulk not quality. The lack of focus in public discourse is concerning.. As I am of a conservative outlook, if we must apply labels, I often ask to my comrades exactly how do you support the troops in the Middle East War? Many say they support the troops, which they do in words but how in any meaningful way. Would they be willing to be taxed an additional $1,000 a year in taxes, would they be willing to serve three months to support the war, exactly what action can be taken to support the troops other than talk? , same with many issues. I guess the old saying “put you money or your heart or your effort where your mouth is ” would aptly apply to sum it up.

    • “In my opinion the dumbing down of America has led to the notion that all viewpoints, opinions and beliefs are created equal which is not the case.”

      See “Screwtape Proposes a Toast” for further analysis of this phenomenon.

  5. Now the sirens have a still more fatal weapon than their song, namely their silence… someone might have escaped from their singing; but from their silence, certainly never.

    -Franz Kafka

    I’ve got nothing to say and I’m saying it.

    -John Cage

    Silence is so accurate.

    -Mark Rothko

    • “Alright, I’ve got something to say. It’s better to burn out than fade away!”

      -Def Leppard

      • Was that Def Leopard, or Kurgan? 😉

      • “You start a conversation, you can’t even finish it
        You’re talking a lot, but you’re not saying anything
        When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
        Say something once, why say it again?”

        — Talking Heads, Psycho Killer

  6. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    For many Christians, words equal deeds.

    “I’ll Pray For You(TM)” is Christianese for doing nothing and feeling Righteous about it.

  7. Unless of course they really pray for you !,,,,,

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      Still, even taking some sort of minor action is a real help. Shows they’re more than just a Pious-sounding pie hole.

      Like when I was unemployed for several months back in spring of 1987. Some of the others in my RCIA cathechism class (RCC) gave me fruit from their trees and job leads. (None of the leads panned out, but they were something.)

      Contrast this with another church several years before (EV Free) where I brought an unchurched friend in similar straits to the singles group and all they talked about was Ministry(TM – “must provide own support” of course) and Prayer(TM). No actions whatsoever.

      • Adam Tauno Williams says:

        > Still, even taking some sort of minor action is a real help

        +1,000

        AND: it is possible to pray for someone WITHOUT first alerting them that you will piously do so. Just do it and shut up about it. Best option – shut up about it AND buy them a coffee.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

          AND: it is possible to pray for someone WITHOUT first alerting them that you will piously do so.

          And it saves on the cost of renting liveried flunkies to blow long trumpets before you.

  8. “For the kingdom of God depends not on talk but on power” (1Cor. 4:20)

    Fundamentalists and other hard-liners appear to have taken this very much to heart. For them it’s all about gaining political power so they can torment people they don’t like and impose their own religion’s taboo system on the whole society through civil law. I often see comments on their websites calling for homosexuality to be re-criminalized, for example, and for Christian concepts to get special recognition from government that would reduce non-Christians to de facto second-class citizens.

    They have a Constitutional right to express their views just like anybody else does, but in their case, taking (political) action creates a concrete threat to other people.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      Fundamentalists and other hard-liners appear to have taken this very much to heart. For them it’s all about gaining political power so they can torment people they don’t like and impose their own religion’s taboo system on the whole society through civil law.

      “I give Donald Trump praise and adoration.”
      — ChapmanEd on Wondering Eagle comment thread

      I often see comments on their websites calling for homosexuality to be re-criminalized, for example…

      “Today Uganda, TOMORROW THE WORLD!”?

    • Burro [Mule] says:

      Hunh.

      Coming from Pentecostal/Charismatic circles, this verse is painfully familiar to me. Strangely, it never seems to come up in a political context. It is entirely interpreted to mean ‘signs and wonders’; healings, providences, deliverances from malignant spiritual forces, etc.

      As one man told me once, ‘I’d rather have one crazy charismatic praying for my healing than a dozen level-headed Baptists giving me Scripture on how to suffer’.

      • –> “As one man told me once, ‘I’d rather have one crazy charismatic praying for my healing than a dozen level-headed Baptists giving me Scripture on how to suffer’.”

        Love it!

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        Though still, Charismatics can be a pain.

        And they can turn on you when you don’t join in or get results.

        Lotsa spiritual one-upmanship games all over.

    • john barry says:

      Infidel, is not our political system based on having power though the democratic republican representative form of governance. Are liberals, socialist, communist, Republican, Democrats and everyone in the political process not trying to gain power by the process. What legitimate websites of any note really are calling for criminalizing homosexuals? Christian and non Christian organizations are all trying to have influence with the government to get their wish list of policies enacted. Certainly in my lifetime no one has been more active in politics and the courtroom than the ACLU,, which is our system. The RCC gets a lot of money for refugee and immigrant resettlement and care, is that wrong? Religious organizations get special tax relief, which is ok with the majority of Americans, does that make non religious people feel second class? Is lobbying and campaigning for no taxpayer money be used for abortions asking other Americans to be second class? I just think personally (my opinion) that the broad brush terms we all use such as liberals, conservative, fundamentalists and all the rest of the short hand description do not lend to a serious discussion.

      • For some reason, your comment made me think of this:

        “Stop trusting in mere humans,
            who have but a breath in their nostrils.
            Why hold them in esteem?”
        -Isaiah 2:22, NIV

      • What legitimate websites of any note really are calling for criminalizing homosexuals?

        As I said, commenters. I’ve seen that from Christians in comment threads on LifeSite, Church Militant, and Breitbart, among others. I’ve never seen anyone there object to it. Not once. Whether or not you consider those sites “legitimate”, it’s clearly an attitude a significant number of Christians hold, and thus a threat that needs to be taken seriously.

        Trying to establish Christian symbols in places like courtrooms and government buildings, or declare the United States a “Christian nation” in some sense, does make other people second-class citizens. If you doubt that, imagine how black Americans would feel about insisting the United States is a “white nation” and having white-power symbols in the same kinds of places. There’s a difference between simply being a statistical majority and claiming a privileged place that lets you define the country as yours.

        Trying to use civil law to enforce taboos on things like homosexuality or abortion is even worse. I doubt you would like living under a government whose civil laws forced you to go along with, say, Islamic taboos concerning alcohol or how women can dress or how big Christian churches can be.

        I’m well aware that not all Christians think of “power” that way, but there are enough who do that it’s a potential problem, and they can certainly find things in the Bible to support their position.

        • john barry says:

          Infidel, America historically was a nation of Christians with the foundation of our government , laws, social customs and culture built on the bedrock of Christian belief. America was not a theocratic nation nor was it intended to be however the Christian heritage of America is undeniable. What you may call a taboo is a legitimate concern to those who feel that abortion if legal should not be financed by taxpayer money for example. The “privileged” class in any society has also been the wealthy class that is open to all in good old USA. I will state flatly America is the least racist, most honest and moral country that exists or r has ever existed. I must add it is not perfect etc. What majority racial group would wage a bloody civil war to free another racial group from the terrible terror and sin of slavery. What was the base for the Union troops to die to make men free as Christ died to make them holy? Would other country would the majority in power work hard and painfully to make amends and do the “Christian” thing and live up to the promises of our founding documents to all people. The equation of Islamic law to conservative values is like the old Communist dodge of we control Eastern Europe but USA is racist. I think a significant number of Christians were alarmed at the state of the nation on immigration issues, national defense, trade policies, taxes and economic unfairness not a white power agenda that has become the mantra since Nov 2016. Christians I know personally have no problem knowing where the real power resides and from all whom blessing flow and it is not D.C. So the average much aligned Trump voter who voted on the issues I mentioned above really at heart is a white nationalist racist because he did not vote for the liberal politician who was the other choice. Thanks for replying above.

    • Yeah.,,

      I think we’re talking about a different kind of “power” here.

      • I am not keen on letting words and ideas (power, kingdom of GOD) get usurped , and therefore negated by those who misuse them, especially those in the church.
        Dilly, dilly, Chap Mike: there is a real and life giving, salvation offering POWER out there , even if there are a bajillion false presentations of them.
        Love this post and topic: He probably didn’t say it , but still love the line in Brother Sun Sister moon:

        :”Ahhhhh, yes, WORDS….. I used to believe in words…..”
        (and yes, that’s something of an overstatement or caricature)

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        I think we’re talking about a different kind of “power” here.

        If so, we’re running into Christians who have the two kinds really confused.

        And the most confused have the loudest throats.

        • If so, we’re running into Christians who have the two kinds really confused.

          And the most confused have the loudest throats

          @HUG: Yes…….and Yes again.

          I think Chap Mike AND Adam T.W. are right. It’s just a question on who is on the mike, how loud, and for how long. Many have opted out of ever getting their turn, and go on to something else.

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

            I’ve been in Furry Fandom since before it became a separate fandom.

            I can attest that the Loud Crazies have a way of defining the public face of a group or movement and influencing the internal culture of the movement itself. And they can always out-LOUD and outlast the rest of us who have lives.

            As Kipling put it, “Led by the Loudest Throats”.

            And as Internet Monk put it about Kentucky mountain preachers, “He has NO book larnin’ and HE IS LOUD!”

  9. Sir, in my opinion you are very wrong. I am nonspecific as possible on your wrongness so as to prevent you from providing a cogent counterargument. You also don’t appear to like X, Y, and Z theologians who I read uncritically.

  10. What I have generally learned (from sharing my opinion) is that most people just don’t give a rip about my opinion, and others just don’t like it (my opinion)…

    • Wayne, have you considered using more decibels? 🙂

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        AKA “Double Down AND SCREAM LOUDER!!!!!”

        “And stop screaming. Nobody likes a religion with people screaming.”
        — Internet Monk, “I’m Weary of Weird Christians”

  11. Christiane says:

    I got into trouble with someone named ‘norm’ over on SBCtoday who wanted to know ‘where I stood’ on certain culture war issues. I didn’t answer him but he was adamant about me having to respond. I remember his great displeasure and subsequent attacks on my character after I refused to play the game, but I knew that although he had the right to ask me questions, I also had the right not to respond and therefore possibly set off a fire storm. I think he was playing the role of ‘gate-keeper’ and I was the suspect intruder to the blog. (well, I wasn’t actually, as I had previously commented on that blog some years previous)

    What is it about the culture wars and ‘taking a stand’ that feeds into the most awfully divisive treatment of one another? Is it ‘if yer not fur us, yer agin us’?
    What ARE these ‘stands’ anyway, but hate-mongering towards people who are different and whose ways are different? Fine to be a ‘culture warrior’, it’s a free country. Not so fine to try to attack those who refuse to join in the spiritual carnage of that game of groans.

    • Christiane,

      I don’t think it’s just culture wars but any controversial subject no matter what side you are on. I think it has more to do with the personality behind the pen. It is easier to be combative behind a computer than in public. That being said we are being influenced (wrongly) by talking heads in the media, that it is ok to talk over people or yell so that the other cannot state their opinion. We are fast losing civility. Without civility there is no exchange of ideas, just a narcissistic presentation of what one “feels”.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        It is easier to be combative behind a computer than in public.

        There’s an actual name for that: NET DRUNK SYNDROME.

        AKA “Instant A-hole; just add broadband instead of alcohol”.

        Has a lot to do with being anonymous behind a handle and safely out of fist range behind a Social Media Broadband link.

  12. Randy Thompson says:

    For the past year or two, I’ve been struck by how many opinions I have, and how many of them don’t matter.

    I suppose we can’t escape having perceptions, but we can avoid letting them harden, like concerete, into opinions.

    Perceptions have some relationship to the world outside of me. Opinions are concepts rattling around in my own head.

    A fair distinction?

  13. Good post, CM.

    –> “‘Speaking the truth”’ gets transformed into stating my opinion or interpretation of some ‘truth’ or issue.”

    Exactly. What is “truth,” really, in terms of Christianity? More often than not, it’s just “strong opinion” based upon belief in whatever theology we’ve found most acceptable and reasonable TO US (me).

    The old “speak the truth in love” line has never set well with me. To me, the REAL truth is “God is Love,” which turns that saying into, “Speak ‘God is Love’ in love.” The truth is, we are to love God and love our neighbors. All other truths are secondary to those two truths.

    Simplifying it, that statement then becomes, “Speak love.”

    So whenever I hear someone pull out that statement, I tend to respond, “The only truth to share is God is love and loves us. Speak that in love, and nothing else.”

    • Christiane says:

      Hi Rick Ro.
      you wrote ‘The old “speak the truth in love” line has never set well with me.”

      same here, when I realized that the intent was anything but truth or love . . . . just another attack phrase in the culture wars, so far from Christianity as to make a mockery of it

  14. I’m sure I’ve re-posted this before—a Pithless Thoughts cartoon, illustrating a blog post by Father Ernesto:

    https://www.orthocuban.com/2010/05/speaking-the-truth-in-love-pithless-thoughts/

    Like most of you, I’m having a tough time with the news lately—fake or otherwise. People are “taking a stand” in all the wrong directions.

    Black is white; War is peace; Freedom is slavery; Ignorance is strength.

    And the stock market is at an all time high, again. Hail to the chief.

    • It has become the habit of an acquaintance of mine, whenever something comes out that sheds President Trump in a negative light, to declare, “Fake news!”

      So now, whenever he shares something that portrays anyone left of Trump in a poor light, I’ll say, “Fake news!”

      And when he, with puzzlement, looks at me and asks, “What do you mean,” I simply reply, “Prove it’s true!”

      Oh, it’s great to use fire with those who use fire!

    • If I see you in the pit of misery, bring something MUCH better than BUD light….. yes, the TV is painful these days, and large parts of Facebook.
      Stay encouraged, inspired, Ted: find your outlets your sources of fresh water, and don’t get cynical (easy for me to say).

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      As someone who is 80-85% worker and 15-20% capitalist (according to last year’s tax returns), I have noticed that the more homeless beggars I see lining the freeway offramps and the bigger the homeless encampments under the freeway bridges, the more my financial investments return. It’s almost a direct correspondence.

      Oh, and the amount of “I give Donald Trump praise and adoration” I hear also seems to be linked.

  15. john barry says:

    Unicorn Guy, Fail to see the success of the economy which is beating every expectation is linked to the “homeless” beggars in your area, perhaps you can explain the connection if it unique to your city or state. Just trying to see how we all arrive at different opinions based on facts we know and how we perceive issues . Thanks for your reply.

  16. John Barry says:

    Unicorn Guy , Being this is about opinions how did you arrive at your opinion about the correlation between the surge in the economy GDP at 3.3 percent and the increase in the “homeless” beggars in your area. Is it unique to your state or city? Has your area lost jobs due to our trade policies and treaties? Do have any facts or is just personal observation, I live in Florida many of the homeless have their winter homeless homes here. I believe they summer in the Hamptons. Thanks for your reply

  17. Great post and comments