October 22, 2017

Saturday Ramblings, May 23, 2015: Memorial Day Edition

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1968 AMC SCRambler

Saturday Ramblings, May 23, 2015: Memorial Day Edition

Greetings iMonks. Today, Dan is away at the Moody Pastor’s Conference, you know, the one where all the moody, grumpy pastors congregate and complain. That leaves me, one unworthy to tie Dan’s hiking boots, to lead us in rambling on this Memorial Day Saturday.

We’ll start with a Top Ten list of quotes from David Letterman’s final show:

DL goodbye10. “We’ve done over 6000 shows and I was here for most of them, and I can tell you, a pretty high percentage of those shows absolutely sucked.” (DL)

9. “I’m just glad your show is being given to another white guy.” (Chris Rock)

8. “Thanks for letting me take part in another hugely disappointing series finale.” (Julia Louis-Dreyfus)

7. “Earlier today we got a call from Stephen Hawking, and he, bless his heart, had done the math, because he’s a genius and stuff, and 6,028 shows and he ran the numbers, and he said it works out to about eight minutes of laughter.” (DL)

6. “Honestly, Dave, I’ve always found you to be a bit of an over-actor.” (Jim Carrey)

5. “You want to know what I’m going to do now that I’m retired? By God, I hope to become the new face of Scientology.” (DL)

4. “Your extensive plastic surgery was a necessity and a mistake.” (Steve Martin)

3. “When we started the show there were mixed responses. Half of the people said, ‘That show doesn’t have a chance.’ The other half said, ‘That show doesn’t have a prayer.’ ” (DL)

2. “My fellow Americans, our long, national nightmare is over” (President Ford). “Our long, national nightmare is over” (President Bush). “Our long, national nightmare is over” (President Clinton). “Our long, national nightmare is over” (President George W. Bush). “Our long, national nightmare is over. Letterman is retiring” (President Obama).

1. “It’s beginning to look like I’m not gonna get The Tonight Show.” (DL)

2015_DixonOnTrackUpClose_1600x800
The month of May in Indianapolis may not be what it used to be, but it’s still all about “The Greatest Spectacle in Racing” — the Indianapolis 500. This year is the 99th running of the race (next year should be amazing), and Scott Dixon will be on the pole after winning qualifications with an average speed of 226.760 mph. Dixon won the race in 2008.

MemorialDay_Banner1Meanwhile, in Atlanta, Andy Stanley and the North Point family of churches must have decided it’s time to “engage the culture” again. Shutting down Sunday services is no longer just for Christmas — North Point will be closed this year for Memorial Day as well.

I’m not sure they even do that in Indianapolis.

franklin-graham2-351On his Facebook page this past week, Franklin Graham posted prayers for each of the Supreme Court Justices, urging Christians to petition heaven that the court will make the right decision regarding same-sex marriage. Here is his appeal for Justice Sonia Sotomayor:

Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor was born to a family of immigrants and grew up in public housing in the Bronx. She is a great example of someone who reached the American Dream through hard work and determination. Unfortunately, she is also an example of someone who seems to be very misguided on the issue of same-sex marriage. She voted to strike down the federal Defense of Marriage Act in 2014, and homosexual advocates consider her an ally in their fight to make same-sex marriage the law of the land. Let’s pray for Justice Sotomayor to have the wisdom to know that as a society we cannot survive if we turn our back on God’s standards and His definition of marriage.

07/05/2015 Marriage Equality Referendum. Pictured are Yes and No Posters on street in Dublin. Photography: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

Photography: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

Meanwhile, the New York Times anticipated yesterday’s national vote about this issue in, of all places, Ireland.

If there was any doubt about the pace at which acceptance of gay rights is taking root in societies around the world, consider Ireland.

On Friday, voters in this once deeply Roman Catholic country will decide whether the Constitution should be amended to add a tersely worded declaration: “Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex.”

If the amendment passes, Ireland will become the first country to legalize same-sex civil marriage by popular vote.

Here are some samples from what will surely become everyone’s favorite new website: Pinterest, You Are Drunk.

If nobody can tell if you are really good at it, or really bad at it,
it’s probably time to pick a new craft.

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And then you invariably have to spend the second half of the BBQ
watching Aunt Bernice walk around with a bottle cap stuck
to the back of her pale meaty thigh.

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 Hairy leg hosiery, because my husband tried to keep me
from coming to meet his coworkers at the work picnic.

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Last week, we lost two great extreme athletes, Dean Potter and Graham Hunt, in a BASE-jumping accident. The pair had attempted to jump in wingsuits from Taft Point, a 7,500 foot cliff overlooking Yosemite Valley in California.

Potter once wrote of his childhood dreams: “I dreamed of feathers sprouting on my arms, fields rolling far below in waves of cloud-streaked green, distorting into burnt wastelands of faint sand dunes and dust storms. Other winged humans flocked toward me. They were gesturing, making high-pitched squeaks. They arched their backs and brought their arms down to their sides, shifted slightly to control their flight and looked at me, encouraging” (“Embracing Insanity”).

Here is a remarkable 2009 National Geographic video featuring Potter making the world’s longest BASE jump:

Christianity Today reports that:

Progressive-Christianity-Fact-or-Fiction-3-300x123A feud over theology has led an unusual ecumenical project in a small Arizona town.

Eight churches—including Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and non-denominational congregations—in Fountain Hills have teamed up for a campaign of public banners and sermons aimed at the theology of a nearby Methodist church.

These churches in Fountain Hills, Arizona have come together in the light of a fierce public debate in the local media surrounding the teachings and positions of Pastor David Felten of The Fountains, a United Methodist Church. Felton advocates what he calls “progressive Christianity.” The other churches will be preaching a coordinated sermon series on “Progressive Christianity: Fact or Fiction?”

Tomorrow is Pentecost Sunday in the Western Church, so here’s a Pentecost Special (from Lark News)…

When he prophesies, it’s in pirate

OAK RIDGE, Tenn. — Sam Brobst took a “Learning Your Spiritual Gift” course at Full Life Center, a charismatic church, and felt the Lord leading him to prophesy during meetings. But when Brobst opened his mouth the first time, he and others were surprised by what came out: pirate speak.

“We were in the middle of worship, when this voice rings out, ‘Yar! Hear the word of the Lord — the Lord of the mighty seas!’” says one witness. “It was straight out of a Disneyland ride.”

Brobst says he can’t help it: when the Spirit moves upon him, he clamps one eye shut and his voice becomes gravelly and menacing. On a recent Sunday, he prophesied, “Avast ye, mateys! Hear the word from our Cap’n: No fear have ye of storms and scallywags, says ye? Argh! But I be seein’ your true hearts. For I see below quarterdecks, says I. Ye be tremblin’ in the face of scurvy dogs. But pay them no heed. For I be preparin’ to pour down plenty o’ booty upon ye. So be of cheer, me hearties! Ye be loved of the Cap’n.”

The people of the church by now are accustomed to it, though first-time visitors often giggle.

“It doesn’t even sound like pirate to me anymore,” says one regular attendee. “My mind translates it.”

Others say it’s preferable to past prophetic styles they have witnessed.

“One woman would wail her prophecies,” says longtime member Darlene Bright. “Another man would thunder in a deep voice like he was trying to impress us. All in all, I prefer pirate.”

Finally, a brief tribute for Memorial Day. This video, from Arlington National Cemetery, describes an honor trip made there that was sponsored by Vets Roll, an organization that thanks America’s veterans by making it possible for them to travel to Washington, D.C. at no cost. These trips are designed to help bring healing and closure to these veterans as they remember the extraordinary and difficult times when they were called upon to serve their country in battle.

Comments

  1. dumb ox says:

    Boo-ta!

    • dumb ox says:

      That was supposed to be boo-ya. Hate iPhone keyboards.

      • Joseph (the original) says:

        somehow, ‘boo-ta’ seems weirdly appropriate.

        you should consider it a new slang term just for the InternetMonk comments section…

        yeah…that ‘pirate-speak’ gift of prophesy is extremely “Boo-Ta”…

        yup…you heard it here first, folks…

        🙂

  2. No media personality is more inconsequential in my life than David Letterman. Jerry Seinfeld comes in at a close second.

    I miss Daniel…

    • Rick Ro. says:

      …Boone?

    • Gosh, Oscar, I hope you didn’t stop reading just because you don’t like Letterman.

      • CP, your Saturday Ramblings are clever, but Daniels’s are WICKEDLY funny. He posts things that, under difference circumstances, might irritate me, but his take just makes me laugh, mostly at myself. On Saturdays I mostly just want to laugh…

    • I’m in full agreement with you, Oscar. The same is true when people ask for my favorite “Friends” episode. It’s the one that never aired.

      • “Friends” is another one of those shows that I never was interested in…

        • StuartB says:

          Ditto, Oscar. Same with Seinfield and Arrested Development. I just don’t get them.

      • Please… Guys, don’t compare “Friends” with “Seinfeld.” Cheap, sleazy imitation. Why Friends lasted so long is a testament to American mediocrity.

        All of life can be reduced to one episode or another of either Star Trek (the original) or Seinfeld. Yes, I’m serious. Best “show about nothing” EVER.

        Except the final episode of Seinfeld, which seems to be the only one that a lot of people have seen, and that was a waste of time. Julia Louis-Dreyfus said it well in the top ten quotes above.

        I’m gonna miss Letterman.

        • Robert F says:

          I never saw a single episode of either “Friends” or “Seinfeld”, so I, for one, can’t compare them.

          I’m gonna miss Letterman, too, even though I never saw a single episode of his show, either.

    • Klasie Kraalogies says:

      C’mon Oscar: You make the common mistake in thinking that because something isn’t interesting or consequential to you, that is a universal truth. It is fine not to like someone, but it not so much when you assume your taste to be universal.

      For instance, I have a very long list of negative adjectives I can apply to country music. But I certainly accept that many, especially here on the northern prairies, just loves the stuff. Similarly with television tastes.

      Of course there is an exception to the rule: Nobody in their right mind likes Nickleback…. 🙂

      • The scariest inadvertent mash-up of musical genres I ever encountered was when a radio DJ was promoting an upcoming concert of “Nickelback Creek.” I almost drove off the road.

  3. dumb ox says:

    Why can’t churches band together to confront actual heresies plaguing the faith? How many John Galt bumper stickers are in the parking lots of those churches attacking that “progressive” church?

    • Rick Ro. says:

      How about, “Why can’t churches band together and promote Jesus Christ?” If I was in a worship service (“worship”, as in, making it about Jesus) and the theme of the service was about what some other church was doing wrong, I’d cry out Hypocrite and leave.

      • C’Mon Rick, you know that in order to be REALLY following Jesus, you have to defend heterosexual marriage/states rights/the KJV/whatever…

      • dumb ox says:

        Proclaiming Jesus? Now you’re talking crazy. I think that would distract from the core values of American evangelicalism.

      • dumb ox says:

        “I’d cry out Hypocrite and leave.”
        Better yet, “ichabod”.

    • David Cornwell says:

      “confront actual heresies plaguing the faith? ”

      The American prosperity gospel for one.

      Spending time and energy refuting this one church will most likely help the attendance of the those they are attempting to correct. And those who visit will probably be amazed at the caliber of the service and the intelligence of the preaching. It may be full of error, but I think it will also be full of appeal. There is error on the right today, as well as on the left. We need to deal with the blindness in our own eye before attempting to correct another.

    • I clicked through and read the article. The protested pastor did say he was preaching an alternative to “biblical Christianity”. There wasn’t more detail as to what exactly that meant. So he might very well be heretical. However I think the other preachers mentioned might be overreacting just a bit.

  4. Rick Ro. says:

    No services on Sunday? What, do they view worship as work or something…?

    • Suzanne says:

      i’ expectations been hearing more & more churches foregoing Christmas Day services as well. They have two or three on Christmas Eve, but nada on Christmas Day. Must have to do with that secular War on Christmas…

  5. Damaris says:

    Franklin Graham has honed that quintessential Christian skill, of using prayer as the holy way to criticize, lambaste, or gossip. Asking God, “Thy will be done” concerning Sonia Sotormayor would really have done the trick without having to explain to God just how wrong she was and in what ways.

    • Marcus Johnson says:

      It’s also a pretty pathetic, and not-so-subtle, form of passive aggression. Graham reminds me of me when I was eight, and pissed off at my brother, so I would talk to my sister in front of him about him. I’m pretty sure my sister was just as annoyed at me as God probably is at Graham.

    • Brianthedad says:

      this is a particular instance of a general problem. I don’t like to listen to prayers that are really just mini-sermons. Why explain things to God? Why go into detail about sister Sara’s reasons for surgery? God knows. Pray for her. Don’t explain to everyone why. You’re talking to God, not me. We get it pretty regularly here in our Capital city. Ministers pray-preaching about some item before the legislature, sheesh. I think Chap Mike has mentioned this in a post once. On the way home from visiting a church, his wife asked him, was the minister preaching or praying?

      • Rick Ro. says:

        I hear these all the time from the pulpit. Closing prayers that just reiterate the sermon. Bugs me to death, especially when it’s nothing more than a five-minute recap.

    • dumb ox says:

      Why is he picking on Justice Sotomayor? It’s Chief Justice Roberts who is looking like he may roll over on conservatives.

    • Christiane says:

      Franklin Graham is NOT a man like his father. And that is a shame.

  6. Robert F says:

    I can’t stand to watch people intentionally putting themselves at high risk the way BASE-jumpers do. It would be like watching two real armies engaging in real warfare and hand-to-hand combat. There is just too much risk involved for me to see it as anything but reckless and foolhardy.

    My understanding is that an enormous number of BASE-jumpers, in the hundreds, have died since the sport became popular just a couple decades ago. To talk about BASE- jumping “accidents” is redundant.

    I’ve heard people say, “Oh, they died doing what they enjoyed doing,” but I just can’t relate to that. I think of the suffering their deaths left behind among their loved ones. “No man is an island.” It makes me sad, and it makes me turn away from any interest in the supposed “beauty” and “wonder” of the feats accomplished by BASE-jumpers.

    • It’s interesting to talk to, say, traditional rock climbers about this sort of thing. The free-stylers of their sport, who try to scale the heights without a single piece of safety gear, receive nothing but contempt from the majority of climbers, most of whose skill sets consists PRECISELY in practices designed to minimize accidents — including knowing when to just give up and come back down in one piece.

      I suspect many traditional skydivers and hang-glider pilots have the same feelings about BASE-jumping.

    • What’s the difference between risking one’s life while base jumping and, say, mainlining heroin?

      • Robert F says:

        Just that the one may garner you an international audience and commercial promoters cheering you on, and even making it lucrative for you.

        Imo, BASE-jumping is not a sport, but daredevilry, not unlike that of Even Knieval, except marketed to a hopelessly hip and terminally ironic audience who prefer their “heroes” not wear white capes.

        • Clay Crouch says:

          “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” – Hemingway

          • Robert F says:

            A great novelist, but Hemingway was on too much of macho head-trip to be taken seriously on this subject.

            And he forgot to include his favorite “sport”: drinking to excess.

    • I’ve been to Taft point. I could never make it to the edge. I can’t imagine doing that and then jumping off too.

    • Rick Ro. says:

      If you ever get a chance, watch the documentary called “McConkey” about Scott McConkey, extreme gamer. He kept pushing the envelope and pushing the envelope until he did something too extreme. These types are basically playing Russian roulette and when they get bored with one bullet, they put in two, then three.

    • dumb ox says:

      One of the news stories reported that the fatal jump happened at night. Even an altimeter wouldn’t warn against trees or rock outcrops. There’s something to be said for living a life that spits in the face of death, but come on.

      • Reports I saw said 7:30 p.m. I live 150 miles south of Yosemite and it’s light here until almost 8 p.m. these days.

      • Robert F says:

        There’s something to be said for life that spits in the face of the unavoidable threat of death, but not when you’re the one who has intentionally arranged the deadly threat just to juice up your life, and maybe make a name for yourself and along with some money.

  7. C’mon, MIke; if you aren’t Prophesying in Kinge Jaymes Englishe then the Lord isn’t really speaking through you. That is how Jesus and Paul talked. Pirate indeed….Although I’m pretty sure I once heard tongues and interpretation given in Klingon.

  8. Robert F says:

    Although I’ve caught snippets, I’ve never watched an entire episode of Letterman’s show. Yet I strangely feel some sadness and nostalgia at its finish.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      The time I remember when Letterman got in the news was when someone was blackmailing him for doing an intern years ago. What did Letterman do? HE WENT PUBLIC WITH IT ON THE SHOW. IF IT’S PUBLIC, THERE GOES ITS USEFULNESS FOR BLACKMAIL. Guy had balls.

  9. Robert F says:

    Does anyone know which way the Irish vote went?

    • “Yes” by a massive 80%+ margin.

      • Robert F says:

        The most conservative nation in Western Europe, and one with profoundly deep Christian roots. The Irish Constitution prohibits abortion, for crying out loud! But more than 80% of the populace supported this legal change, and I can only believe they did so because they had come to understand that it was the humane and right thing to do.

        Wow!

        • Christiane says:

          I think ‘humane’ sounds about right, especially after the attacks on the LGBT community by the Christian far-right, notably the Southern Baptist campaign against trans people, which is shocking in some of its accusations and insinuations.

          I think people of good will have had enough of the ill will of sanctimonious hypocrites, and it may not have been such a bad thing that the Irish vote occurred after the Duggar Sanctimony was exposed publicly, and yes, internationally.

          People of good will have had enough of the finger-pointing, yes.

      • Donalbain says:

        The results are not all officially out yet. Only 4 officially, but they have all returned pro-equality majorities. It will be a thumping victory for decency and equality, but unlikely to be 80%

        http://www.theguardian.com/global/live/2015/may/23/counting-underway-for-irelands-referendum-on-marriage-equality

      • StuartB says:

        Here comes the “judgement is coming to our nation” naysayers…

        Bullshit. Judgement will come from God for the actions of Village Church, the Duggars, and similar.

        • American Evangelical Affiliation Test:
          Which is worst, A) the Duggars, B) the Village Church, or C) legalized gay marriage?

          If you answered C, you are in the club.
          If you answered A you need to realize that raping your little sister is nothing compared to consensual sex between two adult partners of the same sex.
          If you answered B you are a rebellious busy-body, and should probably be under church discipline.

          • Christiane says:

            wow, you’ve been reading some of the salient blogs which reek of ‘poor Josh’ and ‘forgiveness’, but have little to say about the young victims molested by Josh, among them his own sisters. It is disgusting what you read from PASTORS who seem deluded about just who it was got hurt by all this Duggar scene. Very insightful comment, Dr. F, and enclosed in completely acceptable hyperbole. Well done. 🙂

    • Klasie Kraalogies says:

      At final count: 62.1% yes- still a strong majority in any referendum

      • Some of the Dublin constituencies came in with over 70% yes but the overall yes was 62.07% and no at 37.93%. Only one constituency returned more no votes than yes votes and only just (though there were a few others that were only just yes). In addition the voter turnout was relatively heavy for a referendum (over 60% of eligible voters where several previous referendums had voter turnouts in the 30-40% range).

  10. It’s not only the charismatic churches that have gone pirate! Do a search for “pirate eucharist” and see what comes up.

    Here’s an mp3 of a pirate Gloria. Sounds suspiciously like a Gilbert & Sullivan tune.
    http://www.sjmpbooks.com/files/pirateGloria.mp3

  11. Robert F says:

    This past week there was some grousing among some lay leaders at the omission of patriotic hymns in honor of Memorial Day from the upcoming service tomorrow. My wife, as organist/choir director, always seems to be the target of such complaints, no matter how many times it’s been emphasized that this is a theological decision made by the senior pastor (though she is in agreement with it). And its not as if the senior pastor is not conciliatory in his approach: right after the worship service, a short service of prayer, including the singing of a patriotic hymn, is conducted at graveside in the adjacent church cemetery. Still, the same cycle of complaints occur year after year.

    • Tell them, “We have no king but Jesus.”

    • You guys only use patriotic hymns? You’re lucky. One time years ago, the church I was attending used THE NATIONAL ANTHEM as the closing hymn. I was livid. I went around and complained to all my friends about how inappropriate that was.

      All but one of them looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears.

    • Marcus Johnson says:

      I’m a musician on my church’s worship team, so both you and your wife have my sympathies. I’m also an OIF veteran, and I’m at a spiritual place now where patriotic hymns make me incredibly uncomfortable. It usually means I have to be on the spotlight for people’s hero worship. Fortunately, my church isn’t like that anymore, but there was a time when I wanted to either walk out mid-service or crawl under a pew and wait it out.

  12. Good Ramble Champlain Mike. I know that it’s hard to stand in Dan’s boots, but you have acquitted yourself well.

    • I concur. I think Dan is… Too political most weeks.

      • Clay Crouch says:

        Yes, just the right mix of sadness, seriousness and silliness. Would love to hear IM’s Old Prophet’s take on the Pirate Prophet!

        • OldProphet says:

          Well Clay, would you like my response based on 25 years as to my involvement in prophetic ministry or would you like my silly and wacky response?

        • Clay Crouch says:

          Anyone who claims to be a prophet had better be ready to present his bona fides.

          • Clay – indeed (bona fides).

          • OldProphet says:

            What would constitute bona fides?

          • Well, I walked around in my underpants for a year and cook my food with human poop. I’m pretty sure that makes me a prophet.

          • Clay Crouch says:

            For starters, how do you define prophecy and how does it function in your life and your church’s life? Then what is the evidence of your qualifications and achievements in the realm of “prophetic ministry”. That should get the ball rolling.

          • OldProphet says:

            last Sunday (5/17) I posted a comment to W that was part exhortation and part prophecy. I don’t know if W read it. Look it up and weigh it as scripture demands. Perhaps W can comment on whether it was accurate or not. It is as God gave it to me.

          • Clay Crouch says:

            What would qualify as bona fides? For starters, how do you define prophecy, what are the qualifications of a prophet, and how does it operate in your life and the life of your church? Then what is the evidence of your qualifications and achievements?

          • OP, i spent 30 years in charismatic circles, but only started running into people who thought they wrre prophets in the 1990s, during the early ascendancy of the NAR. In fact, a self-self-proclaimed prophet literally invoked curses against me on 2 separate occasions.

            Let’s just say that I’m skeptical, of his claims and of yours, too.

          • Also, OP, not long ago, you responded to a commenter here with “I prophesy Ichabod over you.”

            Could you please explain what you meant by that, and why you think it is OK to do that? I know someone asked you at the time, but you never responded to them.

      • Klasie Kraalogies says:

        It is hard not to be too political in a world where the term “evangelical” has a near-precise poltical defintion, with long list of standardized political opinions….

        • Christiane says:

          the term ‘evangelical’ needs to be rescued from those who worship at the Altars of the Great White Elephants; it’s a good term that is synonymous with ‘Republican’ and Christianity needs to take the term ‘evangelical’ back from the money crowd

      • C’mon, Eeyore, although Daniel’s posts may be somewhat political and, I might add, not in line with my particular leanings, they are usually presented in such an irreverent way as to make one laugh ANYWAY! Now THAT takes talent!

  13. Stephen says:

    “Prophetic styles”?”

    If you’re going the sea route shipmates I think the voice of the Almighty will sound more like this-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rWV8sBZ9ho

  14. Klasie Kraalogies says:

    It is interesting to juxtapose 2 of the sexual politics headlines of the week: The very hot of the press outcome of the Irish referendum, in a country that only decriminalized homosexuality 20 odd years ago, vs the newest evangelical celebrity sex scandal – made worse because of cover up and the fact that the perpetrator was a political activist for conservative marriage. It is said that the church in Ireland lost its hold on the populace precisely because of the discovery of sexual scandal and cover ups especially in the 90’s.

    How does that inform the graphs that Mike Bell posted earlier this week?

    • The Duggar situation may b overshadowing a bigger sex scandal in evangelicalism. This past week it came out that The Village Church, a mega church pastored by Matt Chandler of Acts29 fame, hired a missionary who got involved with child pornography while overseas. Apparently the man is still a communing member, while his wife, who sought an annulment, has been “placed under church discipline” for trying to get away. Unbelievable. No wonder the nones are on the rise.

      • Robert F says:

        Yet another chapter to add to the annals of Church shame.

      • StuartB says:

        But both are just liberal attempts to harm the name of Christ, haymen?

        or maybe the gospelerati or whatever we’re calling them released the Duggar info to cover up the Village Church info…a sacrificial lamb…

        I would applaud any pastor tomorrow or in the coming weeks who stands up and flat out calls their sermon “How the Church Has Been Fucking Up” and publicly repents and denounces their involvement and blessing on these movements…

        Not holding my breath.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        This past week it came out that The Village Church, a mega church pastored by Matt Chandler of Acts29 fame, hired a missionary who got involved with child pornography while overseas. Apparently the man is still a communing member, while his wife, who sought an annulment, has been “placed under church discipline” for trying to get away.

        Oh, it gets better. Dallas Morning News was going to run a story on it, but apparently Village Church (a Mega in the Dallas GCB whirl with Important and Influential members) made a phone call, money talked (“Doing the LOORD’s Work”?), and the story was killed before it ran. doubleplusungood doubleplusunevents. Both Wartburg Watch and Spiritual Sounding Board are on it, though as of now It Never Happened.

      • OldProphet says:

        Dr.F! Did you really walk around with pooh pooh on your underpants? Just because you’re a fanny doctor doesn’t mean you have to do that? Oh, Ezekiel was commando.

  15. “..her pale, meaty thigh.” I see that and am cracking up over here.

  16. Robert F says:

    I’d be interested to hear Roman Catholic iMonks weigh in with their opinions about the results of the vote in Ireland. How do you see this? How do you think this relates to the unfolding American social change in this area? How would you have voted?

    • Robert F says:

      Perhaps Martha could weigh in…

      • Haven’t seen anything from Martha, or from Steve Martin, in a long time. Hope they are both ok.

    • Just guessing here, I would think you would get a mixed reaction. They are known to be independent thinkers. I’ve known some to, obviously on a personal basis not representing church doctrine, consider early term abortion okay under certain circumstances. I think you would find similar variation here.

  17. OldProphet says:

    Hi Num I recall using the term ichabod in a comment some time ago but don’t recall the reason To the best of my memory, I have never spoke that over anyone. If.maybe you or CM can dial that up, ill will respond to it. I will always own up to any word I have ever spoken. Nut also as I commented on earlier. The prophet word I gave W last Sunday is there for you to see. I don’t.know W at all, but he can speak yea it nay as to whether the word is accurate or.not

    • Err, you still haven’t answered any of our questions…

    • Robert F says:

      OP, with all due respect, I looked at the comment you referenced from last Sunday, and, as vague as it was, and as much as all of it could be gleaned by any one of us from previous comments that w had made, there is nothing evidently supernatural about it in the least. I think the average “psychic” medium could probably do a better job.

    • StuartB says:

      Why should anyone, ever, be afraid of someone calling them “ichabod”? Is this some fancy way of cursing someone? Those syllabels in that order are oh so dangerous to use?

      meh. The glory departed Israel a long time ago, and as a Christian, amen.

  18. OldProphet says:

    First of all, Numo, you did not ask me any questions. You simply said you’re a skeptic. In response to Clays comment about bona fides, I said that I gave a prophetic word to an individual here on Imonk. It can be judged by you. clay, Dr. F, Mule, Stuart, etc Also, as I stated the man I spoke it to, W, can comment as to its relevance to him or not. He might sat that it means nothing to him or not. Then you can throw rocks at me. Does any of this mean that I am a wonderful, infallable “Prophet of God”? Is all you’re doctrinal beliefs infallible? No? There are no more Elijahs or Jeremiahs! All
    there is in the Body of Christ is individual believers trying to serve the Church with the gifts that God has given them. By the way, I don’t believe that God has people prophesying like pirates. The spirit of prophecy is subject to the prophets. You can control the way that you speak out a prophetic word.

    • StuartB says:

      Clay Crouch says:
      May 23, 2015 at 4:17 pm
      What would qualify as bona fides? For starters, how do you define prophecy, what are the qualifications of a prophet, and how does it operate in your life and the life of your church? Then what is the evidence of your qualifications and achievements?

      I think that’s what’s being referred to, if that helps at all, OP.

    • StuartB says:

      The spirit of prophecy is subject to the prophets.

      OP, could you discuss what you mean by this? I’ve heard that phrase many times before in my charismatic days, but never really any discussion of the larger context of 1 Corinthians 14.

      That phrase seems to be used to imply that prophets/believers can prophesy whenever they feel like it, something they can either turn on or choose to employ when/if God gives them something to prophesy.

      But when I read the scriptures where that phrase is from, I see no indication of that. I see a lot of talk about orderly service, and how those prophesying can be quiet or speak up when it’s time and appropriate, but that’s order of service language…liturgical language, even. And nothing about how a gift of prophesy can be operated in.

      Could you, in seriousness, talk about this? We don’t usually have charismatic type posts here on iMonk, and this could be a good discussion.

      • OldPtophet says:

        I’d like to Stuart. It would be good a d useful. Too late tonight, maybe tomorrow.

    • Clay Crouch says:

      OP, in referencing your comment that included a “prophecy(?)”, are you saying that that example and an obscure verse in 1 Corinthians are the sum total of what you consider to be prophecy and the qualifications to be a prophet in the church? I’m not sure any reasonable person would consider those offerings to be adequate bona fides. No one is lining up to throw rocks at you. You have on a few occasions self-indentified as a prophet. I’m just asking some questions.

  19. OldProphet says:

    Clay: Lets dialogue, so it’s clear. I’ve never said I’m a “prophet” The handle I use is a description of the ministry gift that the Lord has given me. For over 25 years I have ministered prophetically in local churches to pastors, church leaders, and individuals. The real goal of prophetic ministry is to bless, comfort, exhort, and reassure God’s people that He loves them and His presence is with them. I have done that with prophetic deeds, words, acts, songs, and prayers. I’ve done this to over hundreds a of people, in several countries, and all across the country. I don’t speak to nations, I don’t write books, I not on TV or the internet, and I work a regular job. Nothing I have ever spoken will ever be canonized My words are not the very words of God like an OT prophet. I’m just a man who was told by my Lord to speak, “comfort, O comfort my people”. So if you’re thinking I’m like about 75% of the so called Tv prophets who make millions of dollars and fleece the sheep, you’re not seeing the true nature of the prophetic gifting.

    • Klasie Kraalogies says:

      So how is a “prophetic” ministry then different from the role of any other shepherd, be they pastor or priest? What difference does the extra adjective make?

      • I never could figure that out, Klasie, although I’m sure the NAR types would get more specific. Not saying they’d be right, just much more specific (maybe).

        Honestly, i never had anything close to a clear understanding of these concepts, and especially not per how they fit with the few NT passages in which they are mentioned/addressed. I tried hard to gain some understanding of it, but much reading etc. didn’t leave me any the wiser or more clued in.

        I do not think most charismatics have thought these things through, and they tend to have a very vague, almost mushy, theology of the gifts, and of what they mean, and especially re. how they are suposed to operate. Very often, the default is “TThe Lord laid it on my heart,” followed by some general reassurances of God’s love and presence. I personally think actual NT-type prophecy is very, very rare.

    • In my years in charismatic circles, i heard the word “prophetic” being used in so many different ways thwt it essentially became meaningless. Example: a nice instrumental solo was prophetic. Intelligent, insightful comments were prophetic. Unusual weather or other natural events were prophetic. And so on.

      Mostly, that word is used (alonh with “anointed”) to signify something the person saying it likes or finds noteworthy.

      This is distinct from, but still related to, what charismatics believe are “prophetic words” that occir during services.
      .

  20. OldProphet says:

    By the way Stuart, you’re awesome. I think you’re off sometimes but you are the one guy I can count on to be brutally honest and ask the hardest questions. Because you really want to know